Most animals use oxygen when metabolizing food to produce the crucial ATP molecules—the body’s ubiquitous fuel pellets. But these creatures have a different type of organelle that does the job with oxygen.
So evolution just happened to import or produce a completely different energy system in these creatures, along with several other adaptations, so they could relocate to the bottom of the sea. Or perhaps the creatures happened to explore the depths first, and then luckily evolution provided the massive changes needed.
And how many random biological design changes were needed (yes, they are random with respect to what counts) to do the job? As evolutionists like to say, “That would be: a lot.”
And why did the loriciferans hang around waiting all that time? Or if they didn’t then why were the changes selected? As evolutionists like to say, “Evolution is a contingent process.” It happened because it happened (and other tautologies). That’s just good solid scientific research.
Remember, evolution is a fact, Judge Jones said so. Religion drives science, and it matters
CH,
ReplyDeletepellets. But these creatures have a different type of organelle that does the job with oxygen.
Without right?
Why is this news? It's been known for at least a decade that many bacteria use sulfur instead of oxygen to run their metabolisms. It's been known, again for decades, that many bacteria die in the presence of oxygen. They're called "anaerobic bacteria", and are a huge class.
ReplyDeleteMost of these live in deep-sea environments where oxygen is not available and sulfur is--that's why that metabolism may have evolved, or been selected. Presumably they evolved underseas as well, possibly the lotifarians from them. No need to evolve and oxygen metabolism and then change it.
All this is old news (unless you never heard of it), what's your point?
Garnetstar said...
ReplyDeleteAll this is old news (unless you never heard of it), what's your point?
CH doesn't have a point with any of these goofy over the top anti-science rants. He gets paid by the Discovery Institute to produce anti-evolution propaganda, so he does. He gets compensated based on quantity, not quality.
Just look at it as free entertainment, like watching Mr. Bean pretend to be a scientist.
Very interesting finding. From the original article:
ReplyDeleteThe results reported here support the hypothesis that the loriciferans inhabiting the anoxic sediments of the L'Atalante basin have developed an obligate anaerobic metabolism and specific adaptations to live without oxygen. Although the evolutionary/adaptative mechanisms leading to the colonisation of such extreme environments by these metazoans remain an enigma, this discovery opens new perspectives for the study of metazoan life in habitats lacking molecular oxygen.
It might be a case of symbiotic bacteria doing the energy harvesting. From the original:
Moreover, the transmission electron microscopy also revealed the presence of rod-shaped structures (Figure 4d, e, f), likely prokaryotes, in close proximity to the hydrogenosome-like organelles
Nice finding, no extravagant evolutionary claims were made, lots of exciting discoveries still to be made.
Cornelius' point? Bweh.
Incredulity isn't an argument. Then again, "That's just what the designer must have wanted." isn't either.
ReplyDeleteYep...evolution can do ANYTHING {Praise Darwin!!} It creates, it corrects, it modifies, it destroys, it chops, it dices, it slices.....
ReplyDeleteNational Velour said...
ReplyDeleteYep...evolution can do ANYTHING {Praise Darwin!!} It creates, it corrects, it modifies, it destroys, it chops, it dices, it slices.....
It makes Creationists go online and make blithering idiots of themselves trying to hand wave away 150+ years' worth of positive scientific evidence.
Cornelius Hunter said...
ReplyDeleteRemember, evolution is a fact, Judge Jones said so.
No Cornelius, what Judge Jones actually said was
"To be sure, Darwin's theory of evolution is imperfect. However, the fact that a scientific theory cannot yet render an explanation on every point should not be used as a pretext to thrust an untestable alternative hypothesis grounded in religion into the science classroom or to misrepresent well-established scientific propositions.
The citizens of the Dover area were poorly served by the members of the Board who voted for the ID Policy. It is ironic that several of these individuals, who so staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions in public, would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real purpose behind the ID Policy."
...but you were probably too busy counting the money you got from selling your integrity to notice.
Garnetstar:
ReplyDelete"Why is this news? It's been known for at least a decade that many bacteria use sulfur instead of oxygen to run their metabolisms. It's been known, again for decades, that many bacteria die in the presence of oxygen. They're called "anaerobic bacteria", and are a huge class.
All this is old news (unless you never heard of it), what's your point?"
====
But the subject wasn't about bacteria or microbes, it was about the first known multicelluar animal with these abilities. Here's an article from April 07 2010 which says:
LIVE SCIENCE (April 7, 2010):
"A wide variety of single-celled organisms that live anaerobically, or without oxygen, had been found in the past, usually deep underwater or deep underground."
---
Sure enough that's what you said. But then this came next:
"But researchers had not found a multi-cellular or metazoan animal that did so until now — the giant tube worms that live by hydrothermal vents, for instance, rely on dissolved oxygen."
Article:
Animals Living Without Oxygen Discovered for First Time
Then of course there is every Evolutionist's favourite reference WIKI. Notice the entry under "Evolutionary History".
"Evolutionary history"
The loricates are believed to be miniaturized descendants of a larger organism perhaps resembling the Cambrian fossil Sirilorica.[6] However, the fossil record of the microscopic non-mineralized group is (perhaps unsurprisingly) scarce, so it is difficult to trace out the phylum's evolutionary history in any detail."
Loricifera
Of course that wasn't very helpful in proving it had an evolutionary past, but as it stated, it is 'BELIEVED to have evolved' or FAITH.
Fascinating! The extent of terrestrial biodiversity is incredible.
ReplyDeleteSpeculating wildly, hydrogenosomes in Loricifera could have a similar symbiogenetic origin as mitochodria have in eukaryotes. Is the Creationist line just to scoff or is there a creationist explanation for these scientific observations and research that fits the facts?
Alan Fox:
ReplyDelete"Is the Creationist line just to scoff or is there a creationist explanation for these scientific observations and research that fits the facts?"
====
Fascinating Indeed! You've taken a page right out of the old Thortonian playbook script. When you have nothing, then you can always fall back on "BURDEN SHIFT"
Eocene said...
ReplyDeleteAlan Fox:
"Is the Creationist line just to scoff or is there a creationist explanation for these scientific observations and research that fits the facts?"
====
Fascinating Indeed! You've taken a page right out of the old Thortonian playbook script. When you have nothing, then you can always fall back on "BURDEN SHIFT"
LOL! So what are the IDiots going to teach on this subject if they ever do get it sneaked into schools?
"The ID explanation is "BURDEN SHIFT!!!"
The Thorton:
ReplyDelete""The ID explanation is "BURDEN SHIFT!!!"
=======================
Hey, you're the great "Thorton The Closet IDiot", you tell us!
Troy:
ReplyDelete"Nice finding, no extravagant evolutionary claims were made, lots of exciting discoveries still to be made."
====
And ultimately that's the point. A great find, no religious dogma of either side(in other words no incense burning in an alter before an image of a god) injected into an otherwise fascinating discovery. Just clean unadulterated research.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteEocene:
ReplyDeleteWhen you have nothing, then you can always fall back on "BURDEN SHIFT"
When a scientist has no explanation for a phenomenon, he can look for one using observation and experiment. He/she can test hypotheses. He/she can share experience. It's called empiricism or trying to see the World as it is rather than how you'd like it to be. I get the impression creationists like Cornelius Hunter try to force reality to conform to a set of beliefs. I suggest, if your beliefs are contradicted by facts, you should think about modifying your beliefs rather than denying the facts.
"But the subject wasn't about bacteria or microbes, it was about the first known multicelluar animal with these abilities. Here's an article from April 07 2010 which says:
ReplyDeleteLIVE SCIENCE (April 7, 2010):
"A wide variety of single-celled organisms that live anaerobically, or without oxygen, had been found in the past, usually deep underwater or deep underground.""
So if CH knew about sulfur-metabolizing bacteria, why the amazement at finding multi-celled animals that also metabolize sulfur?
Why the idea that the animals had to evolve an oxygen metabolism, then change it to a sulfur one?
Why the ideas that lotifarians had to "relocate" or "hang around waiting all that time"?
Seems awful ignorant. But, I gather, that may not be unusual in this author.
Cornelius Hunter: So evolution just happened to import or produce a completely different energy system in these creatures, along with several other adaptations, so they could relocate to the bottom of the sea.
ReplyDeleteNot completely different. Hydrogenosomes probably evolved from mitochondria.
De Graff et al., The organellar genome and metabolic potential of the hydrogen- producing mitochondrion of Nyctotherus ovalis, Molecular Biology and Evolution 2011.
"It is generally accepted that hydrogenosomes (hydrogen-producing organelles) evolved from a mitochondrial ancestor. However, until recently, only indirect evidence for this hypothesis was available. Here we present the almost complete genome of the hydrogen-producing mitochondrion of the anaerobic ciliate Nyctotherus ovalis and show that, except for the notable absence of genes encoding electron-transport chain components of Complexes III, IV and V, it has a gene content similar to the mitochondrial genomes of aerobic ciliates."