Friday, April 15, 2016

More Threats of Persecution For AGW Dissent

The Penalty For Dissent

Appeals to constitutional rights are becoming quaint ideas as the call for persecution of dissent continues to rise. This month is was leading academic Michael Kraft and none other than the Science Guy, Bill Nye, issuing their opinions that those not going along with AGW (man-made, or anthropomorphic global warming) should face persecution. Kraft writes that “Those who intentionally misled the public about climate change should be held accountable,” and Nye states that “there is a chilling effect [from the threat of persecution] on scientists who are in extreme doubt about climate change, I think that is good.”

Nye is quite correct. Persecution will have a chilling effect, though it is at the extreme of the spectrum. Less aggressive, yet nonetheless effective, tools include the withholding of passing grades, diplomas, letters of recommendations, peer-reviewed publications, academic positions, employment, funding grants, tenure, and legitimization in general—all tools that have been used quite successfully by evolutionists for decades to stamp out dissent.

There is a very real selection process in academia enforcing evolutionary thought. The reason dissent is not tolerated is that once one is allowed even a tiny ray of light the entire edifice comes crashing down. Once one genuinely considers even the mere possibility that evolution may not be true, then the lie is suddenly exposed. Like those optical illusions, suddenly you can see the scientific evidence plainly.

AGW may or may not be accurate, I have no idea. But I know McCarthyism when I see it. A metaphysically-driven idea with failed predictions that is enforced by political and social tactics is not a good sign. The leaked emails revealed the underside of what was already fairly obvious from the outside.

Publications are controlled, journals and careers are threatened, data are manipulated to produce dramatic results, and failed predictions are ignored.

Yes Nye is correct that persecution, or even the threat of persecution, would have a chilling effect. But to be clear, there already is a chilling effect. Kraft and Nye think they are doing a good service by raising the specter of persecution, but that is merely one more tactic, after a long series of less aggressive, yet effective, tactics. McCarthyism didn’t end with McCarthy.


  1. From the article you quoted:8
    "Dismissawl of well-established climate science has parallels to decades of debate over tobacco use and its effects on health. Tobacco companies long denied any causal relation between smoking and disease even when their own studies showed the opposite to be true.

    Similarly, some fossil fuel companies for decades publicly rejected established climate science and the role of burning fossil fuels in anthropogenic climate change while their internal studies confirmed both.

    The tobacco companies eventually paid a steep price for their actions. In 1999, the Justice Department filed a civil lawsuit against them, charging that they "engaged in and executed" a "massive 50-year scheme to defraud the public, including consumers of cigarettes," in violation of the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, or RICO.

    Specifically, the lawsuit said the companies engaged in a conspiracy to launch a public relations campaign challenging scientific evidence that demonstrated the health risks of smoking at the same time that their own research confirmed smoking's danger.

    The tobacco companies lost the suit. The federal courts found them in violation of RICO, in particular for fraudulently covering up scientific evidence of health risks linked to smoking. The courts rejected the tobacco companies' argument that their statements were protected under the First Amendment's guarantee of free speech."

    So what are you saying? That the first amendment protects fraud?

    1. The fraud comes from Nye et al.- AGW is BS. Yes we are warming up, very little, when compared to coming out of a little ice age. We are prospering.

    2. You contend that the only dissent is financially motivated. Good. Prove it.

      I listen to people on youtube who look well qualfied. They state their resumes, making it clear that they are not subsidized by the oil companies. Should they not have a voice? If they are lying, if they really are shrills for big business, then prove it.

  2. Great example of the genetic fallacy.

  3. Bill Nye is an atheist. Like all atheists, he can't help being a fascist. We have all seen the results of this fascism in Pol Pot's Cambodia, Stalin's Soviet Union, Mao's China, Castro's Cuba and Kim Jong-Un's North Korea. We see their fascism even in the Western "democratic" world, in the way they have conquered the schools, the mass media and the judiciary of many nations.

    Fascism is deeply ingrained in the atheist's psyche. They would never amount to anything without it. They could never compete with the other religions without the use of forced indoctrination. But they are on borrowed time, IMO. Their demise will suddenly be upon them and it will come from the one place that they least expect. Wait for it.

    1. Another scientifically based argument from Mapou. But at least he didn't call Nye a homosexual.

    2. Another substance-free post from WS. At least it didn't say it is acting more Christianly than anyone else.

    3. "Another substance-free post from WS. "

      In response to a substance-free post by Mapou. I can only work with the material I am given.

      "At least it didn't say it is acting more Christianly than anyone else."

      No, there are only two people who post here that I act more Christianly than.

    4. LoL! Lou was making it clear that Nye is a moron who cannot be trusted with any science. Nye wants to stifle dissent and proper inquiry. It is the atheistic way.

      And you don't behave Christianly at all. You wouldn't know how to act Christianly. And you prove that with each of your posts

    5. No, there are only two people who post here that I act more Christianly than.

      Only losers give themselves kudos...

    6. i think Louis has moved from profound mockery to profundity with a sarcastic bent.

      There is no denying that Secular Humanism as a worldview leads people to centralized control. The idea that man is in control of human destiny, and that life has no eternal purpose, leads to a conflict of interests.

      I don't guess that Louis shares my Christian worldview (evidenced by his harshly critical tone), but I have to agree with his understanding of atheists. As a worldview, atheism does provoke a certain trend.

    7. Truth:

      He's an atheist AND a homosexual? Poor guy.

      I had no idea that Nye was a homosexual. I thought he was just weird. It certainly follows a trend among atheists. Many homosexuals have embraced atheism as a way to counter the hostility they see coming from certain sectors of Christianity. It also explains why the Christophobia of the atheist community seems to be directed primarily toward fundamentalist Christians and not so much the Catholic Church. Why, you ask? It's obviously because the Church of Rome long ago adopted a policy that attracts homosexuals (and gay pedophiles) by the legions. I mean, why would they attack an organization when it is populated by their own kind.

      So it's no surprise that Bill Nye argues that "there is nothing wrong with homosexuality because it's everywhere in nature." This is like saying there is nothing wrong with cancer or schizophrenia because it's everywhere in nature.

      Homosexuals need to come to grips with the fact that they have a neurological disorder, one which is probably due to both genetics and upbringing. Christian fundamentalists also need to stop being so judgmental less they be judged with the same judgement that they use on others.

      Having said that, I will not tolerate anybody who attacks my religion under the hypocritical guise of doing science when, in fact, their hidden agenda is purely political and driven by their homosexuality and fear of Christianity.

      So you Christophobic atheist homosexuals who think you can attack Christianity with impunity have it coming. Some of us Christians are not at all homophobes. And I mean this in every sense of the word "phobia" you can think of. We are not afraid. Unlike some of you gutless worms, we got a spine.

      No fear. You've been warned.

    8. Watching Joe and Louis in action has been fascinating. They're certainly both emotionally retarded, quite possibly mentally too, and both possess latent psychopathic tendencies. They probably see each other as kindred spirits, feeding off each others' obscenity spewing rants and reinforcing each others' delusions of adequacy.

  4. Let's see- The earth has been warmer in the past. Sea levels were higher in the past. Humans have always prospered during the warmer periods. What does Nye and company have against humans?

  5. Louis Savain: "We have all seen the results of this fascism in Pol Pot's Cambodia, Stalin's Soviet Union, Mao's China, Castro's Cuba and Kim Jong-Un's North Korea."

    And we all saw the results of Religion at work when that Martin Luther loving Catholic, Adolph Hitler, led his Christian country in the slaughter of six million Jews because they were the "wrong" religion. Christian Germany was aided by Christian Italy and Shintoist Japan in these murders plus the killing of another fourteen million or so in WWII. Significantly, Shintoist Japan had little to do with slaughtering the Jews since the Shintoist religion hasn't taught hatred of Jews for the last two thousand years, as Christianity has.

    Meanwhile, all the bombings, assassinations, executions and burnings alive are currently being done by another branch of the Judeo / Christian / Muslim religion.

    Christianity has a long tradition of burning people alive if their religious beliefs aren't up to snuff and of course we see Muslim believers doing the same today. Got any examples of Godless Commies doing the same?

    1. Hitler wasn't a christian. And the German public didn't know what was going on.

      You are one desperate chump...

    2. Dave,

      "Got any examples of Godless Commies doing the same?"

      I won't mention Hitler because you asked for examples of godless commies.

      Mao Tse Tung: approximately 70 million
      Joseph Stalin: approxiamtely 40 million
      Pol Pot: approximately 25 million

      All in the 20th century alone.

      As for those who are guilty of abusing religion throughout history: approximately 17 million

    3. Joe: "Hitler wasn't a christian."

      He was baptized. He was raised Catholic. Was he an active Catholic when he was in power? Probably not. But he certainly played on the Christian distrust of the Jews.

      "And the German public didn't know what was going on."

      No, they just watched their Jewish neighbours taken away and their property seized. And the reported the brave Germans who tried to assist the Jews.

      Read a book Joe. You might learn something.

    4. How about reading "The Hiding Place" about real Christians risking their lives and freedom to help the persecuted.

    5. Churchianity and Christianity are vert distinct

    6. LoL!Hitler was not a christian, period. And being removed is not then same as knowing they were going to be killed.

      Buy a vowel, WS, your desperation is annoying.

    7. There is no question that many have come in the name of religion throughout history and have performed atrocities. This is precisely my point. Atheism is just another religion hell bent on conquering the world and destroying the competing religions. Atheism is different though. It's the only religion that pretends to not be a religion while doing exactly what organized religions have always done. Even within democracies, they managed to circumvent various laws of separation between Church and State by feigning to be something other than a Church.

      And yet, atheism/materialism/Darwinism is the most superstitious, faith-based church of them all. It is the only religion that worships dirt as the mother of life on earth. It is the only religion that teaches that the universe just poofed itself into existence. Atheists are not only fascists (like all organized religions), they are some the most hypocritical and deceptive religious folks ever.

      Atheism = Church of the Flying Dirt Monster.


    8. PM: "How about reading "The Hiding Place" about real Christians risking their lives and freedom to help the persecuted."

      So, you disagree with Joe that the German people weren't aware of what was happening. Good to know.

    9. The German people said they didn't know. Even Goring didn't know

    10. Joe, are your ancestors German?

      If most of the Germans didn't know what was going on, it was due to willful ignorance. Something you are personally familiar with.

    11. You have to hear "I was not a Nazi Polka" by The Chad Mitchell Trio. Lol

    12. LoL! WS the projector-boy strikes again! Most of the Germans were too busy with other things and your ignorance is not an argument.

    13. But anyway- enough nonsense and get back on-topic. Geez

    14. "If most of the Germans didn't know what was going on, it was due to willful ignorance."
      Kinda reminds me of Americans and abortion clinics.

    15. PN: "You have to hear "I was not a Nazi Polka" by The Chad Mitchell Trio. "

      I was partial to their "Hang on the Bell Nellie".

    16. William,

      "He was baptized. He was raised Catholic."

      He was baptized as a baby.

      "But he certainly played on the Christian distrust of the Jews."

      Exactly, which is what I said. He used Christianity to accomplish his goals. It meant nothing more to him than that.

      As for the German public, it begs credulity to believe the majority did not know what was going on. Their only excuse is fear for their own lives.

    17. Joe G,

      "And being removed is not then same as knowing they were going to be killed."

      While technically true and probable at the beginning, there can be no doubt large numbers were aware of what was happening later on.

    18. Joe G,

      "The German people said they didn't know. Even Goring didn't know."

      Put yourself in the shoes of the average German after the war, would you readily admit you knew millions of Jews, Jehovah's Witnesses and homosexuals were being systematically murdered? I really doubt it.

      As for Goering, all I can say is, yeah, right. If you believe that, I would like to talk to you about some ocean front property I have for sale in Kansas.

    19. Yeah, Nic the psychic knows all- knows what other people knew.


    20. Joe G,

      "Yeah, Nic the psychic knows all- knows what other people knew.


      What is truly pathetic is people like you who know less than zero about history.

      Use your flipping head, Joe, Goering was Hitler's right hand man. Can you for even a second imagine that he had no idea what Hitler was doing? Do you think he did not understand the depth of Hitler's hatred for the Jews? If he was unaware of Hitler's goals why would Hitler designate Goering as his successor?

      If Goering was guilty of nothing more than being the head of the Luftwaffe he would not have been brought to trial at Nuremberg.

      Really, Joe, read a flipping history book. Damn!

    21. I read his testimony- AND he was busy with- wait for it- the WAR.

      But anyway you don't have any evidence to support your claims and I am OK with that

    22. Joe G,

      "But anyway you don't have any evidence to support your claims and I am OK with that."

      My gosh, the naivete' is palpable. Goering said he was busy with the war and you accept that as evidence he knew nothing about what was happening? Are you really serious or do you just have a really weird sense of humour?

      The fact he was on trial at Nuremberg for war crimes is evidence for what to you? Was it just because he got his butt kicked in the Battle of Britain?

      I really do not understand how you believe anyone should take anything you say seriously when you spout such utter stupidity as this.

      I'll retire to bedlam.

    23. LoL! Just cuz the allies said war crimes doesn't mean he was guilty. And war crimes is a huge tent. There isn't any evidence he knew or was complicit.

      ALSO the US had an opportunity to take in jewish refugees and didn't allow it. We are guilty of war crimes against the Jews.

    24. Joe G,

      "There isn't any evidence he knew or was complicit."

      Keep telling yourself that if it makes you fell better. I've come to the conclusion I'm talking to a brick.

    25. LoL! Believe whatever you want. You are showing your non-Christian colors.

    26. And Nic, I have come to the conclusion that I am talking to a prick.

    27. Nic: "Keep telling yourself that if it makes you fell better. I've come to the conclusion I'm talking to a brick"

      At least a brick has some use.

    28. At least a brick has some use.

      And you do not.

    29. Joe G,

      "LoL! Believe whatever you want. You are showing your non-Christian colors."

      Just a further example of your ignorance.
      Christians are to be truthful, and when it comes to your knowledge of Hermann Goering, I am being truthful.

      I see you've now resorted to your usual name calling. Maybe you should put the same amount of energy into educating yourself as you do hurling insults.

    30. LoL! You wouldn't know the truth about Goring if your life depended on it. You already have your mind made up. How very unchristian of you.

      As for hurling insults- look in the mirror ye ole hypocrite!

    31. It's hopeless Nic. Joe is like the mouthy belligerent drunk in the bar, bragging about things he never did and threatening to fight all who oppose him. Just like the drunk he's petrified to get off his barstool. Mouth is all he has.

    32. And Timmy's pathetic projection and pathological lies continues.

      Life is good- you know you have won when Timmy and WS enter the fray

  6. This is not McCarthyism. Something was radically wrong (and still is) within the State Department.

    This is more like Lysenko-ism.

  7. Dave,

    "Adolph Hitler, led his Christian country in the slaughter of six million Jews,..."

    So, Dave, you're going to try to promote the argument Adolph Hitler was a Christian? Sorry, but there is no kinder way to put this but to say you're an absolute idiot. Oh, I know you will come back saying he was a Catholic or that he referred to God frequently in his speeches, etc. Sadly this only goes further to show your ignorance of history. Hitler was a master at political and social manipulation and well aware of the Lutheran heritage of Germany. Thus he used the resources at his disposal which included that Lutheran heritage. Hitler himself was an atheist and a avowed disciple of evolutionary thought.

    So, go right ahead and spew your ignorance about Hitler being a Christian, but rest assured those of us who know and understand history will be laughing at your feeble attempts even while we are shaking our heads in disgust at your complete and utter stupidity.

    1. Nic, accepting evolution does not mean that a person is not Christian. The Catholic Church accepts evolution.

      But I do have a question. When does a person cease to be a Christian? It is fact that Hitler was baptized and was raised Catholic. I have not read anywhere that he ever disavowed God.

      I am not suggesting that his religion was responsible for his actions, he did them of his own free will.

      Here's a hypothetical. If Hitler had honestly and sincerely repented in his last days, would he be accepted into heaven? If so, why? And if not, why not?

    2. LoL! The equivocation is nauseating.

      The Church, like evolutionary biologists, cannot answer question about evolutionism. The Church, like evolutionary biologists, have no clue as to how to test the claims of evolutionism.

    3. Joe, please be quiet, the adults are talking. My question was to Nic. Unlike you, I am actually interested in Nic's opinions, even though I often disagree with them.

    4. William,

      "Here's a hypothetical. If Hitler had honestly and sincerely repented in his last days, would he be accepted into heaven?"

      Yes, because Christ's forgiveness is unconditional. It does not require a specified time period between asking for forgiveness and receiving it.

      There is an old Christian adage about an atheist falling off a tall building and converting to Christianity on the way down. It's trite but it is also true. It is, in effect, a death bed repentance as seen in the thief on the cross.

    5. William,

      Sorry, William, I forgot to answer the first part of your post.

      "But I do have a question. When does a person cease to be a Christian?"

      Way to go, William, you hit on a topic of hot debate even within the Christian faith, can one lose their salvation?

      There are two common schools of thought on this subject. One view says no on the basis that if one says he was a Christian and has lost his faith he was not really a Christian to begin with. Others say it is quite possible for a Christian to turn from his faith and deny Christ.

      Charles Templeton is a prime example of this debate. Some say if he had continued on the path he was following as an evangelist working with Billy Graham, he would have surpassed Graham in stature. Others categorically argue he never was a Christian to begin with.

      As for where I stand, I'm afraid you might see my position as a cop-out. I think that this whole question is beyond our finite little minds. I sincerely believe the answer to this question is known only to God, as he is the only person who truly knows the heart and mind of each individual, Charles Templeton included.

    6. Nic, the reason I asked this is because I have had this "was Hitler a Christian" discussion several times. When I ask someone who professes to be a Christian how they know that Hitler wasn't a Christian, the answer, invariably, is that a true Christian would never do what he did. That has always seemed to be a cop-out to me.

    7. William,

      "When I ask someone who professes to be a Christian how they know that Hitler wasn't a Christian, the answer, invariably, is that a true Christian would never do what he did. That has always seemed to be a cop-out to me."

      While it is true, it is hardly a cogent response. I think most people rightly see it as a trite answer. Christ said you would know those who follow him by their fruit. In other word their actions and the results of their actions. This applies to the individual as well as the collective. So, take what Christ taught and what he asked his followers to do. If their actions line up with his teachings they are obedient Christians. If their actions do not line up it is safe to assume their commitment to Christ is mere lip service.

      That is a very simple explanation but sufficient I hope.

      Now ask yourself the question, taking this into account do you think Hitler acted as Christ would wish him to act? It matters not what Hitler said, it matters completely what he did.

    8. I see Joke Gallien is doing his best to take a crap in and ruin everyone else's attempts at conversation. Again. Being a bellowing jerk is the only tactic he knows.

    9. I see Timmy TuTu is back with its usual ignorant attacks.

    10. William Spearshake,
      Hitler was not a Christian. Does professing oneself to be a native american make it so? If I said I was Navajo, studied the culture as to answer any question, dressed in traditional garb, and registered myself as such with the government, would I then be a Native American?

      No I wouldn't. I would be a liar. My heritage is mostly English and zero Navajo.

      Hitler wasn't a Christian. Before you can understand how I can know that without ever having met him you have to understand what a Christian is. Starting with what it isn't.

      Being a Christian isn't merely a profession. "many will say to me Lord Lord [...] but I will say depart from me. I never knew you..." You can't just say it any more than I can call myself Native American.

      By strict definition, Christian is defined as a "follower of the Christ". To be a follower, or a disciple, you have to actually emulate your teacher. You must adhere to the teaching. A student can disagree with a teacher, or even be a student of "life", but a disciple or follower is one who is trying to become like the one they follow. It's a purposefull, concious choice.

      Many teach becoming a Christian is a simple prayer, or acceptance; but Jesus taught somthing a little more. He said "die to yourself, pickup your cross, and follow me." That implies giving Lordship to Him, which implies not pursuing your own concepts of justice, right/wrong, or general self-gratification.

      So Hitler could not have been a Christian.

      "If Hitler had honestly and sincerely repented in his last days, would he be accepted into heaven? If so, why? And if not, why not?"

      I'll second Nic: The answer is "Yes" and the why isn't really difficult; because that's the nature of mercy and grace.

      I don't believe for a moment that a person so given to their depravity could every give up their self-rightiouslness and confess Jesus as Lord. But if he had, Jesus said "if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Of course confession is in the context of repentance which is a complete turning of the heart.

    11. "so, in the debate about who is responsible for mot atrocities, atheists or Christians[...?]"

      Sounds like you're looking at labels. If I place arsenic in a Tylenol bottle is it Tylenol or arsenic that kills?

      Another problem is the use of terms like "in the name of..." where atrocities are done "in the name of" Christianity. When Jesus spoke using the term "in my name" it was understood to mean "in my manner" or "in keeping with my teaching". Not as some would have it today, arsenic cannot kill in the name of Tylenol.

      "I'm sorry, but I simply can't follow a religion that condemns the majority of earth's population."

      Yet atheism condemns all. All is vanity. There is no eternity. Entropy will eventually win and only cold blackness will prevail. This is the hopeless theology taught by secular humanism in schools today, and the one to which you lay claim.

      You say you cannot follow my religion, and that's your choice. What you can't do is choose what truth is, so the real question is what is truth.
      Is God?
      Do you reject God because you cannot follow a religion? That would be silly, that would mean you are assuming the authority to define who God should be.
      So you reject God because you've proven he doesn't exist. No, that's silly too. I've never met an atheist who makes such a claim.
      So you reject God as a premise because you're committed to materialism. If you can't see it it doesn't exist.

      Is there another possibility? something I've missed? When I ask "Is God?" you answer no. on what do you base that?
      Does that also mean you reject all spirituality?

      Your theological questions are good ones and they do have answers, perhaps not ones you would like, but answer just the same. this isn't the best forum for that Q&A. The relevant question is why are you so committed to atheism? What has convinced you?

  8. The ID movement should change its strategy, IMO. Rather than trying to get ID accepted by the scientific community and be taught in the schools, we should try to stop the atheist/Darwinist religion from being taught in the schools, a clear assault on Constitutional law.

    We must not allow any religion get a free pass by obtaining funds from the government to proselytize in our schools and indoctrinate our children with impunity.

    The Church of the Flying Dirt Monster must be stopped. The ID movement should morph into a political movement and convince voters that The Church of the Flying Dirt monster is breaking highest law of the land. They are stealing our tax money to promulgate their religion in our schools. They must be stopped.

    1. Excellent point. Darwinists have gone stark raving mad. They must be stopped before they turn the entire planet into a Brave New World dystopia. This blog, by the way, is doing its part.

  9. This thread is finished. Timmy TuTu shat all over it with one post.

    1. Fat Joke continues his favorite tactic. He'll keep upping the level of angry insults and cursing until he gets banned. The same pattern has played out a dozen times of a dozen site where Joe's been booted. Of course Cornelius doesn't seem to mind a YEC cussing up his blog.

    2. Horton,

      The real truth is that you are a homosexual, you are obsessed with Joe, and you want to be his little bitch. There is no need to deny it, man. You may fool other people here but you don't fool me. I know how you homosexuals are. I see it everyday. LOL

    3. LoL! Timmy gets canned more than tuna. And its projection, while amusing, is a little annoying.

      Timmy is so unaware of itself it's pathetic

    4. Says alot about the maturity level of the two IDiot Creationists that they think callings someone gay is a terrible insult. :)

    5. LoL! Timmy, you are the most immature person ever. You are one sick and self-unaware dipstick.

    6. This comment has been removed by the author.

    7. And Timmy, nice own goal over on atbc...

    8. But Fat Joke, you're the guy who got fired from his job for posting threats of physical violence.

    9. Yes, Timmy, we all know that you are jealous and obsessed with me.

    10. You guys made me's good to have distractions sometimes...In the can (funny commercial)

  10. Nye is a fool admired by other fools. The blind leading the blind. Poor souls!

  11. DM:

    Next you'll be denying that murderous Jew hatred has not been a part of Christianity since New Testament times.

    Funny you should say this because it was Jesus himself who warned the Jews and prophesied that a time would come when they (Jews) would be persecuted in his (Jesus's) name. This prophecy has certainly come to pass.

    Don't attack a religion that you don't understand just because it was taken over by a bunch of a-holes.

  12. Dave,

    "Are you trying to tell us that Germany, the home of Martin Luther and the birthplace of Protestantism was not Christian?"

    Do you understand what Christian actually means? A nation is not Christian, many of the people composing the nation may be, but the nation is not. So, no, Hitler did not lead his Christian nation in the slaughter of the Jews. That the people of Germany let this happen is clear indication that most of them were not practicing the Christianity to which they claimed adherence.

    "Next you'll be trying to tell us that Martin Luther didn't recommend that Christians should burn the houses and synagogues of the Jews, forbid the teaching of their religion on pain of death and condemn the Jews to agricultural slaves."

    Why would I do that? Sorry, pal, you do not have someone who is ignorant of history on your hands. Martin Luther was no saint. Just because he was a reformer who accomplished many positive things in regards the spread of Christianity does not mean he was perfect, far from it. He was, however, a man of his times. A common fault of today's pseudo intellectuals is a tendency to practice historic chauvinism.

    "Next you'll be denying that murderous Jew hatred has not been a part of Christianity since New Testament times."

    My you think a lot of yourself, telling me what I will be doing next.

    No, I will not be denying a hatred of Jews throughout history. Why would I? It is a fact of history and one of which the Bible speaks clearly, that his chosen people; the Jews; would face persecution. But if you are going to try to lay this persecution at the feet of only Christians you are ignorant of the facts.

    Also, in case you were not aware of it, persecution of the Jews pre-dates the first century. I am curious what you would call the treatment of the Jews under the Romans?

  13. Bill Nye The Nobody Guy.... that's better

  14. Nic
    That the people of Germany let this happen is clear indication that most of them were not practicing the Christianity to which they claimed adherence.

    When someone sins they are no longer Christians?


  15. "When someone sins they are no longer Christians?"

    It was not my intention to leave that impression. Christians sin all the time. My intention was to say the reason Hitler was able to get away with what he did was because the people of Germany did not act as they should have, whether Christian or otherwise.

  16. Jesus said that, eh? Were you there? Or are you taking the word of the anonymous people who wrote the gospels and who probably never saw Jesus even once.

    Do you believe in the slaughter of the innocents? The Virgin birth? A non-existent Roman census that, just that one time and never again, forced people to travel hundreds of miles to their ancestral homes to be counted, but somehow didn't make the secular history books? The three wise men and the mysterious moving star? The flight to Egypt?

    You say that Jesus warned the Jews. When were these words set on paper and by who? Had the Christian sect already schizemed off from Judaism by then, with all the attendant hatred such breakups often cause? Had the Jews revolted once or twice by then, earning them a place at the absolute top of the Roman hate list and giving any new religion a good reason to distance themselves from their hated ex-religion while sucking up to Rome?

    Do you still think Einstein and Newton and all those other great physicists are brainless because they don't share your weird views?

  17. Nic: "Do you understand what Christian actually means?"

    I understand the "No true Scotsman" fallacy. Ever heard of it?

  18. Dave,

    "I understand the "No true Scotsman" fallacy. Ever heard of it?"

    Yes, but as anyone with a modicum of intelligence understands, such an observation is not always fallacious.

    As Christianity demands a particular form of conduct, one who claims to be a Christian but does not follow the form of conduct expected is in fact not acting as a true Christian should. As such for someone to point out this fact is not a case of the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy. Sorry.

    1. The leaders of the Catholic Church started the Spanish Inquisition and aimed it at "conversos", Jews who converted to
      Christianity (on pain of death), but who were thought to have remained sympathetic to their original religion. Anti-semitism is Christian in nature. Else the Pope's not really Christian.

  19. Nic: "No, I will not be denying a hatred of Jews throughout history." ... "I am curious what you would call the treatment of the Jews under the Romans?"

    Under the Romans, eh? Well, there was rhat time in the Maccabee period when the tribes were fighting each other and one of them called on the Romans for help. The Romans helped him win and then kept the country for themselves, but there was nothing special about that. The Jews were understandably miffed and we're troublesome and discontented subjects and this drew some reprisals, but nothing out of the ordinary. By the first century, when the greco-Roman relifion menagerie was suffering from its own absurdity, Judaism was actually attracting Romans with its relative simplicity. (Some of them later broke away and became Christianity.)

    Hated throughout history eh? Please give us some examples of systematic anti-semitism that occurred before they revolted twice from Rome? That certainly garnered some hatred from the Romans - and the loss of their country and exile of their people.

    But please don't list the Old Testament squabbles. The Hebrews were a very small tribe sandwiched between some huge and powerful nations and surrounded by hostile tribes. Everybody hated everybody and as one of the smaller tribes, the Jews got stomped regularly, juse lIke the othe small tribes.

    If the Bible can be believed, they brought some of the stomping on themselves. Remember that Jewish king? The reformer that destroyed all the altars to other gods? The one who was especially favored by God for his reforms? The one who tried to order the Egyptian army not to pass through his land? The one who got killed for his troubles, despite being God's favorite? Nothing unusual there. Egyptians were not in the habit of taking orders from savages.

    The real Jew hatred starts with the Christians, kicked out of Judaism and desperately trying to convince the Romans that they were not rebels too. "Synagogue of Satan" ring a bell? "His blood be on us, and on our children?" How about, "you testify against yourselves that you are descendants of those who murdered the prophets...You snakes, you brood of vipers! How can you escape being sentenced to hell?"

    Do you really think the San he drinks tried Jesus and turned him over to the Romans for execution when the midnight arrest and crucifixion were Roman specialties, especially around Passover when Jerusalem was packed with restive Jews and the Romans brought in extra guards to handle troublemakers?

  20. "San he drinks" = "sanhedron" after auto correction. Sorry for the other auto "corrections".

    1. Dave,

      "The real Jew hatred starts with the Christians,..."

      "But please don't list the Old Testament squabbles."

      Oh, you're one of those. Okay, I see there will be no point in trying to carry on a discussion with you as you know it all. Take care.

  21. This comment has been removed by the author.

  22. DM,

    Man, you sound like a former Christian who rebelled against your religion. Or like a Jew who has a bone to pick with Christianity. Maybe you are a Jew with grievances. I don't blame you but I can assure you that almost everything you believe is true about Christianity is in fact crap.

    Jesus said that, eh? Were you there? Or are you taking the word of the anonymous people who wrote the gospels and who probably never saw Jesus even once.

    There is enough historical and archaeological evidence to conclude that some if not most of the New Testament books were written at least within 100 years after the death of Jesus. This is not to say that the Church did not add their own crap later on. So even if one denies Jesus, that prophecy was right on the money since Christianity did not become a state religion until Constantin the Great converted to Christianity in around 300 AD. The widespread persecution of Jews by Christians did not begin to occur until centuries later. So the prophecy stands, whether you like it or not.

    (Let me add here that faith in Christianity is not based on this.)

    Do you still think Einstein and Newton and all those other great physicists are brainless because they don't share your weird views?

    Here, you are either lying or misinformed since Newton was not only a true blue Christian, he calculated from the prophecies in the book of Daniel that Yahweh/Jesus would return to earth around the year 2030, just in the nick of time to save it from total destruction. Look it up.

    As far as Einstein is concerned, nobody really knows what he believed in although he frequently mentioned God in his writings, e.g., "Subtle is the Lord" and "God does not play dice with the universe." And he was certainly wrong about that since God does indeed play dice with the universe: quantum mechanics proved that the universe is probabilistic, not deterministic as Einstein claimed.

    You Christophobic atheists need to get your facts straight. Everytime you say something against Christianity, you plant both feet squarely in your mouths.

  23. Nice Dodge. You don't have anything to say about pre-Christian or OT anti-semitism (because there never was anything like it until Christianity attained political power) so just utter a few tired insults and pretend answering is beneath you.

    Tell you what, here's an easier question. Name on prominent anti-semite who is NOT a Christian or Muslim.

  24. Hitler and Stalin were both raised in Christian countries which demonized Judiasm.. Hitler even went to a Catholic school and Stalin went to an Orthodox seminary. Mao and Pol Pot, on the other hand grew up in non-Christian countries and never showed much interest in Jews either way. I suppose you're not interested in Tojo, a religious non-Christian who grew up in a non-Christian country, but he didn't care about Jews either.

    All four were psychopaths and single-minded believers in a cause greater than themselves who attained great power in modern times and did modern amounts of destruction.

    I don't blame Christianity (or religion in general) for a majority of the world's ills, let alone all of them. But I do blame Christianity for inventing murderous Jew hatred (anti-semitism is a 19th century euphemism for Jew Hatred), practicing it for over a thousand years and turning it an ordinary, respectable, every day part of Christian cultures that has made life hell for Jews for over a thousand years and makes it easy for a Hitler to organize mass violence.

    Have you ever wondered why Hitler hated Jews in particular? Why not Muslims? Islam is also a semitic religion. Unlike the Jews, Muslims actually invaded Europe. If not for a couple of battles, Hitler might have grown up Muslim. Why didn't he have a murderous rage against Islam instead of Judiasm?

    Why not Jehovah's Witnesses? He had no compunction about murdering them by the thousands for refusing the draft.

    Did you ever hear of Hitler declaring war on Bhuddists? Or Hindus? Jains? Zorostrians?

    Why did Hitler single out the Jews? How did he persuade Germany to go along with him?

    Google "Why did Hitler and so many others in Christian cultures hate the Jews?" See them avoiding the one obvious answer: Because hating Jews is baked right into the Christian religion, and Christian culture starting in the New Testament and continuing to today.

  25. Hit the publish button too soon again.

  26. Well said, Louis. The word "Christophobic" is genius. These pitiful creatures hate Christ and all who follow him, but deep down they really FEAR him.