tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post6186687558337963792..comments2024-01-23T02:32:28.567-08:00Comments on Darwin's God: Worshipping the CreatureUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger115125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-8210008438955777662012-02-18T22:24:23.808-08:002012-02-18T22:24:23.808-08:00Of courseOf coursevelikovskyshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10957523527184649923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-53325345979615724942012-02-18T17:44:13.791-08:002012-02-18T17:44:13.791-08:00That would be up to Lino.That would be up to Lino.Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00216381429665486830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-74870740833252938942012-02-18T15:07:28.994-08:002012-02-18T15:07:28.994-08:00Was Lino just making a historical observation?Was Lino just making a historical observation?velikovskyshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10957523527184649923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-47729925110599866572012-02-18T09:06:23.217-08:002012-02-18T09:06:23.217-08:00Ah.
It did seem silly for him to discount a text b...Ah.<br />It did seem silly for him to discount a text because of its age while at the same time referencing other information generated in the same era that has undergone revision.Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00216381429665486830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-54373904550952472992012-02-18T08:49:27.912-08:002012-02-18T08:49:27.912-08:00Jenkin's argument was actually a big problem b...Jenkin's argument was actually a big problem back then. Darwin had some clues, but the solution came from an Austrian monastery...Geoxushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00480560335679211508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-33395065585350338562012-02-18T08:47:59.683-08:002012-02-18T08:47:59.683-08:00Bacterial Flagellum - A Sheer Wonder Of Intelligen...Bacterial Flagellum - A Sheer Wonder Of Intelligent Design - video<br /><a href="http://www.metacafe.com/watch/3994630" rel="nofollow">http://www.metacafe.com/watch/3994630</a><br /><br />The ATP Synthase Enzyme - exquisite motor necessary for first life - video<br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3KxU63gcF4" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3KxU63gcF4</a><br /><br />Powering the Cell: Mitochondria - video<br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrS2uROUjK4" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrS2uROUjK4</a><br /><br />Molecular Machine - Nuclear Pore Complex - Stephen C. Meyer - video<br /><a href="http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4261990" rel="nofollow">http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4261990</a><br /><br />Kinesin Linear Motor - video<br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOeJwQ0OXc4" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOeJwQ0OXc4</a><br /><br />Ribosome Translation High Quality - video<br /><a href="http://pubs.acs.org/cen/multimedia/85/ribosome/translation_bacterial.html" rel="nofollow">http://pubs.acs.org/cen/multimedia/85/ribosome/translation_bacterial.html</a><br /><br />Myosin - video<br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8F5GGPACkQ" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8F5GGPACkQ</a><br /><br />The Virus - Assembly Of A Molecular "Lunar Landing" Machine - video<br /><a href="http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4023122" rel="nofollow">http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4023122</a><br /><br />The following article has a list of 40 (yes, 40) irreducibly complex molecular machines in the cell:<br /><br />Molecular Machines in the Cell -<br /><a href="http://www.discovery.org/a/14791" rel="nofollow">http://www.discovery.org/a/14791</a>bornagain77https://www.blogger.com/profile/16666666037080692370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-5669775039680103272012-02-18T08:22:28.698-08:002012-02-18T08:22:28.698-08:00The inner life of a cell – Harvard University – vi...The inner life of a cell – Harvard University – video<br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJyUtbn0O5Y" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJyUtbn0O5Y</a><br /><br />Programming of Life – Eukaryotic Cell – video<br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/Programmingoflife#p/c/6/WVCwDOMCpXY" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/user/Programmingoflife#p/c/6/WVCwDOMCpXY</a><br /><br />Ben Stein – EXPELLED – The Staggering Complexity Of The Cell – video<br /><a href="http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4227700" rel="nofollow">http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4227700</a><br /><br />Journey Inside The Cell – Stephen Meyer<br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fiJupfbSpg" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fiJupfbSpg</a><br /><br />Through the Virtual Cell – video<br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/ndsuvirtualcell#p/u/4/YM2X1c4K1x0" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/user/ndsuvirtualcell#p/u/4/YM2X1c4K1x0</a><br /><br />The Central Dogma (English version) – video<br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ygpqVr7_xs" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ygpqVr7_xs</a><br /><br />Molecular Biology Animations – Demo Reel<br /><a href="http://www.metacafe.com/w/5915291/" rel="nofollow">http://www.metacafe.com/w/5915291/</a><br /><br />DNA - Replication, Wrapping & Mitosis<br /><a href="http://vimeo.com/33882804" rel="nofollow">http://vimeo.com/33882804</a><br /><br />Here is a neat little video clip that I wish was a bit longer (they say a longer one is in the works):<br /><br />The Flow – Resonance Film – video<br />Description: The Flow, from inside a cell, looks at the supervening layers of reality that we can observe, from quarks to nucleons to atoms and beyond. The deeper we go into the foundations of reality the more it loses its form, eventually becoming a pure mathematical conception.<br /><a href="http://vimeo.com/groups/7286/videos/25430131" rel="nofollow">http://vimeo.com/groups/7286/videos/25430131</a>bornagain77https://www.blogger.com/profile/16666666037080692370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-22299215114578772532012-02-18T07:40:53.001-08:002012-02-18T07:40:53.001-08:00And...?And...?Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00216381429665486830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-59411548763186235552012-02-18T07:29:37.991-08:002012-02-18T07:29:37.991-08:00Smith
"LOL! Good one PaV. Post to an art...<i>Smith<br /><br /> "LOL! Good one PaV. Post to an article written 145 years ago, in 1867. <b>That sure has relevance to the modern ToE and all the additional information about the process we know today.</b>"<br /><br /> How is this any different from someone referencing Darwin's text?</i><br /><br />Try reading the bolded sentence again, more slowly this time. Follow with your finger if it helps.Ghostriderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04686873801972423841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-73444167774976267252012-02-18T07:18:51.506-08:002012-02-18T07:18:51.506-08:00"LOL! Good one PaV. Post to an article writte..."LOL! Good one PaV. Post to an article written 145 years ago, in 1867. That sure has relevance to the modern ToE and all the additional information about the process we know today.<br />"<br /><br />How is this any different from someone referencing Darwin's text?Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00216381429665486830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-48051900671923228432012-02-17T21:08:50.215-08:002012-02-17T21:08:50.215-08:00PaV Lino
You may be interested in knowing tha...<i>PaV Lino<br /><br /> You may be interested in knowing that your motion of variation around a mean was used by Fleeming Jenkin, a contemporary of Darwin, and an engineer. He caused Darwin to lose a lot of sleep. There's a website someplace where you can find his article.</i><br /><br />LOL! Good one PaV. Post to an article written <b>145 years ago</b>, in 1867. That sure has relevance to the modern ToE and all the additional information about the process we know today.<br /><br />Here's a few other good ones from that era:<br /><br />"Louis Pasteur's theory of germs is ridiculous fiction". <br /> -- Pierre Pachet, Professor of Physiology at Toulouse, 1872<br /><br />"Heavier than air flying machines are impossible." -<br /> Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895<br /><br />I always knew Creationists were in the last century. I didn't realize some of you fools are two centuries behind.Ghostriderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04686873801972423841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-36975208039267127002012-02-17T19:15:14.261-08:002012-02-17T19:15:14.261-08:00Neal Tedford:
You may be interested in knowing th...Neal Tedford:<br /><br />You may be interested in knowing that your motion of variation around a mean was used by Fleeming Jenkin, a contemporary of Darwin, and an engineer. He caused Darwin to lose a lot of sleep. There's a website someplace where you can find his article.<br /><br />Here's a <a href="http://www.victorianweb.org/science/science_texts/jenkins.html" rel="nofollow">link.</a>Lino Di Ischiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00904662370561530557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-64967963181123109892012-02-17T17:12:02.514-08:002012-02-17T17:12:02.514-08:00LOL
Velikovsky you gambler!LOL<br />Velikovsky you gambler!Eugenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15513772766225981430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-68626174719214634232012-02-17T16:16:08.498-08:002012-02-17T16:16:08.498-08:00velikovskys
10 dollars on geoxus for the win,...<i>velikovskys<br /><br /> 10 dollars on geoxus for the win,10 on Eugen to place</i><br /><br />But just wait until the clowns at the Discovery Institue spin it:<br /><br />"IDer finishes second, Evolutionist finishes next to last!"<br /><br />:)Ghostriderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04686873801972423841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-51886774539323269222012-02-17T15:54:30.704-08:002012-02-17T15:54:30.704-08:0010 dollars on geoxus for the win,10 on Eugen to p...10 dollars on geoxus for the win,10 on Eugen to placevelikovskyshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10957523527184649923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-91807877088281982942012-02-17T14:57:45.300-08:002012-02-17T14:57:45.300-08:00Geoxus,
Thanks for the link, I'll check it l...Geoxus, <br /><br />Thanks for the link, I'll check it later.<br /><br />I'm not disputing it's all chemistry. Maybe I'm seeing too much or maybe you are seeing too little. Time will tell. <br /><br />Substrate is a playground for information. <br /><br />Believe it or not, I came up with this one. Not too shabby, eh?Eugenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15513772766225981430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-30442002358511683732012-02-17T13:23:20.686-08:002012-02-17T13:23:20.686-08:00Thorton:
In the case of the Ensatina salamanders...Thorton:<br /><br /><br /><i>In the case of the Ensatina salamanders, the two groups that overlap at the end of the ring do not naturally interbreed. </i><br /><br />From your link:<br /><br /><i>Two distinct forms of Ensatina salamanders, differing dramatically in color, coexist in southern California and interbreed there only rarely.</i><br /><br />They can, and do, interbreed. Would you like to emend your comments?Lino Di Ischiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00904662370561530557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-209178801730749992012-02-17T12:29:37.649-08:002012-02-17T12:29:37.649-08:00The CAPTCHA is becoming increasingly challenging. ...The CAPTCHA is becoming increasingly challenging. I'm starting to think I might be a robot.Geoxushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00480560335679211508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-39405049105043710072012-02-17T12:28:01.179-08:002012-02-17T12:28:01.179-08:00I'm quite sure I'm right, unless I've ...I'm quite sure I'm right, unless I've been missing something really big (Nobel prize big). Forget about process optimisation and ribosomes as little robots. This is chemistry, you need to think in terms of reaction kinetics.<br /><br />You can have fun doing your own calculations with this:<br />http://www.chem.ucsc.edu/~wgscott/courses/chem200c_save/final_presentations/Wintermeyer.pdf<br /><br />Here's a snippet:<br /><i>The initial step in the interaction of EF-Tu¢GTP¢aa-tRNA with the ribosome is rapid, to form a kinetically labile initial complex (21, 22). At about 10^8 M^(-1)s^(-1)(20 °C), the value for k1 is unusually high, compared to typical second-order rate constants of 10^5–10^7 M^(-1)s^(-1) found for formation of other macromolecular complexes.</i><br /><br />(My emphasis.)<br /><br />----------<br /><br /><i>Videos are great help but they always show tRNAs floating randomly like butterflies and then are suddenly attracted to A site. Instead, there could possibly be a loose little line up on the entry side.</i><br /><br />The problem is that videos are greatly simplified and slowed down. Chemistry is not easy to visualise.Geoxushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00480560335679211508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-64009883026688787572012-02-17T11:16:07.372-08:002012-02-17T11:16:07.372-08:00"Hybridization in the south of the ring betwe..."Hybridization in the south of the ring between the unblotched E. e. eschscholtzii and the blotched E. e. klauberi is RARE or,<br />at ONE site, nonexistent, SUGGESTING complete species formation "(Wake et al. 1986, 1989).<br /><br />--<br /><br />So hybridization between the non mating Ensatina is rare, but possible. Apparently at one site it hasn't been observed, but at others it has. They think that at this one site the data suggests a species formation. <br /><br />--<br /><br />Once again the ball starts rolling but stops short of showing any empirical observation of any substantial directional change. It certainly falls way short of showing a unbounded change. Certainly if biologists had solid evidence for a speciation formation we would see something more than a subspecies naming convention going on within the ring species.<br /><br />--<br /><br />I'm not even claiming that it is always at the species level that change is bounded... but it would sure be helpful to at least see a clear cut and solid example of a genuine speciation event that is beyond speculation. <br /><br />What I'm claiming is that when the data is plotted out over time t+n... there is not an observation of unbounded and directional change. Some animals have very short generations and lifecycles so making excuses that there isn't enough time to observe the change is an excuse. The changes that we do see happening occur quite rapidly... bird beaks, peppered moths, etc. None of them demonstrate evolution, only bounded change that diverges and merges with no net directional gain over time. Again, what "could happen" is not evidence, and using water erosion to justify what "could happen" is not evidence for biological evolution either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-78955321520755842752012-02-17T11:07:20.654-08:002012-02-17T11:07:20.654-08:00Thanks for your comment, Geoxus
I think if we rel...Thanks for your comment, Geoxus<br /><br />I think if we rely on random tRNA entry and then on error correction to reject misfit, ribosome would be very slow. That is why I think, just from the process analysis standpoint; there should be some queuing or sorting of tRNA. <br /><br />Videos are great help but they always show tRNAs floating randomly like butterflies and then are suddenly attracted to A site. Instead, there could possibly be a loose little line up on the entry side.<br /> Just thinking loud, I didn’t read much on this issue.Eugenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15513772766225981430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-58240458818993398292012-02-17T08:57:51.564-08:002012-02-17T08:57:51.564-08:00Troy, Theobald's article.
He doesn't get ...Troy, Theobald's article.<br /><br />He doesn't get off to a good start by saying that Darwin was the first to propose universal common descent. Which he wasn't. This muddled inaccuracy is pretty representative of the rest of the article. It makes we want to go and read an algebra book to get back to clear thinking again.<br /><br />That genetic sequences don't match the tree of life based on morphology is totally missed by Theobald. <br /> <br />Mainly though, the hypothesis he is testing against is not common design. He compared UCA against the notion that sequence similarity (convergence, etc) might orginate by chance as opposed to universal common descent. Does he have the name of the one person in the history of the world that actually held to such a notion?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-79466995444196409372012-02-17T08:47:24.034-08:002012-02-17T08:47:24.034-08:00It does indicate that there may be a limit to how ...It does indicate that there may be a limit to how far a simple process like erosion can go by itself. Eventually, you stop going downhill. So, by analogy, maybe evolution can only go so far.natschusterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13127240463824366637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-64176993611583812032012-02-17T08:31:15.546-08:002012-02-17T08:31:15.546-08:00natschuster the troll
I understand that we ne...<i>natschuster the troll<br /><br /> I understand that we need more than just erosion and weathering to explain the Grand Canyon.</i><br /><br />Which doesn't change one iota the point of the analogy. But it is pretty funny to see the board's lying troll try to stick up for the board's idiot.Ghostriderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04686873801972423841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-75289172797062953602012-02-17T08:27:47.405-08:002012-02-17T08:27:47.405-08:00Tedford the idiot
Water erosion is not evidence f...<i>Tedford the idiot<br /><br />Water erosion is not evidence for biological evolution. Saying, just because water does such and such is not evidence for biological evolution.</i><br /><br />No one ever argued that water erosion is evidence for biological evolution. Damn but you're an idiot.<br /><br /><i>By quantifying the amount of change over time that we observe, we can see if biological change follows a pattern that is unbounded and directional or not. Evolutionists must quantify their observations and accurately interpret what they see and not equate what they think could happen with what they actually observe happening.</i><br /><br />Once again the idiot demands to see millions of years worth of change happening in a few weeks in the lab. <br /><br /><i>It can not be an automatic assumption. </i><br /><br />It's not you idiot. It's based on several hundred years' worth of positive evidence.<br /><br /><i>Live reproduces with amazing fidelity and error correction (as the video above describes). Are evolutionary mechanisms capable of overcoming that amazing fidelity? </i><br /><br />Yes. Evolutionary mechanisms are empirically observed causing genetic changes.<br /><br /><i>What I'm asking evolutionists to do is to quantify unbounded and directional change by observational evidence and not just speculate about it or give their interpretation of events that happened 100 million years ago. </i><br /><br />Why do you limit science to just real time observations? We have over 3 billion years worth of fossil data you need to account for idiot. In science you don't get to ignore huge amounts of data just because you don't like the ramifications.<br /><br /><i>Are we to assume that evolutionists have an accurate interpretation of something that happened 100 million years ago?</i><br /><br />We have an interpretation that explain all the evidence in a clear, consilient manner. You're too much of a coward to even offer an alternative one.<br /><br /><i>This is why I believe that plotting the pattern of observed change over time is more helpful than speculating about distinct boundaries vs evolution. </i><br /><br />Already done you idiot.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.geo.arizona.edu/geo3xx/geo308/FoldersOnServer/2003/MicroEvoLectureNotes2003_files/image008.jpg" rel="nofollow">Plotted pattern of observed change over time</a><br /><br />Ignoring the data won't make the data go away.<br /><br /><i>Regarding ring species, from what I can see, all of the animals in the ring are still part of the same species, but subspecies. It doesn't look like this is a clear case of speciation. Furthermore, reproduction is probably just a preference (especially with the Warblers). I haven't found any research that tells us this or not.</i><br /><br /><a href="http://webpages.icav.up.pt/PTDC/BIA-BEC/103933/2008/Ensatina.pdf" rel="nofollow">Yes you have you idiot.</a> You just ignored it, just like you ignore all scientific evidence you can't explain. That's because you're an idiot.Ghostriderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04686873801972423841noreply@blogger.com