tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post3612336776812087315..comments2024-01-23T02:32:28.567-08:00Comments on Darwin's God: Michael Skinner on Epigenetics: Stage Three AlertUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger111125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-34823511209969321742016-11-22T16:25:30.317-08:002016-11-22T16:25:30.317-08:00William,
"As an aside, I have never suggeste...William,<br /><br />"As an aside, I have never suggested that you provide quotes out of context."<br /><br />I know, it was obliquely directed at others who love to accuse everyone who is opposed to evolution of quoting out of context.Nichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08693133888203943510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-7089063148668350262016-11-22T15:42:42.050-08:002016-11-22T15:42:42.050-08:00Nic, thank you. I will check out the source.
As ...Nic, thank you. I will check out the source. <br /><br />As an aside, I have never suggested that you provide quotes out of context. William Spearshakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09354659259971103985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-44638494832695591262016-11-22T08:51:56.486-08:002016-11-22T08:51:56.486-08:00William,
"Nic, the morphology doesn't ch...William,<br /><br />"Nic, the morphology doesn't change,..."<br /><br />Yes, William, it does, as is evidenced by the following quote.<br /><br />"Morphological characters are also affected. Crowded adults,... are larger and display different body proportions from their uncrowded,... counterparts.<br /><br />Dingle, Hugh; (1996) Migration: The Biology of Life on the Move.<br /><br />If you wish you can look up the source as it goes into more detail as to what morphological changes actually occur. You will also see the quote is in context.<br /><br />Nichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08693133888203943510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-27135080348966997832016-11-22T06:17:21.285-08:002016-11-22T06:17:21.285-08:00You are a master at projecting your ignorance onto...You are a master at projecting your ignorance onto others. Everyone is aware of that.Joe Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08305194278121208230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-37002329187514550922016-11-22T06:16:33.131-08:002016-11-22T06:16:33.131-08:00Yes behaviour changes are easier to come by than w...Yes behaviour changes are easier to come by than waiting for random mutations. Tat is just another reason why evolutionism fails.<br /><br />Thanks William.<br /><br />Joe Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08305194278121208230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-20201644670508596852016-11-21T15:16:48.365-08:002016-11-21T15:16:48.365-08:00CH. stage 3?CH. stage 3?William Spearshakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09354659259971103985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-41011225041496238472016-11-21T14:47:15.314-08:002016-11-21T14:47:15.314-08:00Nic, the morphology doesn't change, the behavi...Nic, the morphology doesn't change, the behaviour does. Overcrowding has long been known to change behaviour in many organisms. Overcrowding of grasshoppers results in locust swarming. Overcrowding of rodents results in increased homosexual activity (that should piss off the anti-gay crowd). Have you ever heard of mob-mentality?<br /><br />I guess, by definition, this is all epigenetic (on or above genetic) but not in the sense that CH is talking about. William Spearshakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09354659259971103985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-23284139174124990592016-11-21T12:33:29.774-08:002016-11-21T12:33:29.774-08:00Joe: "LoL! William the projectionist strikes ...Joe: "<i>LoL! William the projectionist strikes again."</i><br /><br />Working in the movie theatre was a great experience. I am surprised that you were aware of it.William Spearshakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09354659259971103985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-66399643228636383882016-11-20T18:23:32.438-08:002016-11-20T18:23:32.438-08:00William,
"But one thing I am fairly certain ...William,<br /><br />"But one thing I am fairly certain of is that if the swarming aspect was seriously detrimental,..."<br /><br />Why are you concerned with the possible detrimental aspect of swarming when you cannot even begin to explain how swarming would arise via RM/NS? That is where you must start, not what the possible negative aspects may be. How would RM/NS bring about the swarming activity and the morphing of a grasshopper into a locust? Nichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08693133888203943510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-31653212517752552152016-11-20T10:22:49.311-08:002016-11-20T10:22:49.311-08:00how does ID explain away epigenetics?
Why would i...<i>how does ID explain away epigenetics?</i><br /><br />Why would it need to be explained "away"?<br /><br />Under evolution it needs to be explained "away".Cornelius Hunterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12283098537456505707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-44637068319096907892016-11-20T10:19:35.507-08:002016-11-20T10:19:35.507-08:00Incredulity is not an argument.
There was nothing...<i>Incredulity is not an argument.</i><br /><br />There was nothing to argue against. You did not address problem that epigenetics poses for evolution.Cornelius Hunterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12283098537456505707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-20996304137364794302016-11-20T08:28:22.612-08:002016-11-20T08:28:22.612-08:00CH: "Stage 3."
Incredulity is not an ar...CH: "<i>Stage 3."</i><br /><br />Incredulity is not an argument. By the way, how does ID explain away epigenetics? <br /><br />Nic: "<i>For example, can evolution explain how certain short-horned grasshoppers, usually innocuous and low in numbers, can, under the right conditions, transform to a massive, devastating swarm of locusts?"</i><br /><br />Obviously, I don't know the details. But one thing I am fairly certain of is that if the swarming aspect was seriously detrimental (from a fitness perspective) the gene responsible for it would quickly die out unless the benefit of the other expression of the gene far outweighed the deleterious effect of swarming. <br />William Spearshakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09354659259971103985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-52862253034315205782016-11-19T14:50:03.195-08:002016-11-19T14:50:03.195-08:00William,
"but epigenetics is nothing more th...William,<br /><br />"but epigenetics is nothing more that specific genes being expressed in different ways,..." <br /><br />With all due respect, that is an incredibly simplistic statement. It is the expression of those genes which you pass off as simply 'nothing more than' which is so highly developed and complex and which the existence of cannot begin to be explained via evolutionary processes.<br /><br />For example, can evolution explain how certain short-horned grasshoppers, usually innocuous and low in numbers, can, under the right conditions, transform to a massive, devastating swarm of locusts? No 'just-so' stories will do, evolution must be able to provide a detailed step-by-step explanation as to how this ability arose via RM/NS.Nichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08693133888203943510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-23042611348386876482016-11-19T14:02:20.681-08:002016-11-19T14:02:20.681-08:00Stage 3.Stage 3.Cornelius Hunterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12283098537456505707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-33055666487638953242016-11-19T13:56:28.551-08:002016-11-19T13:56:28.551-08:00Nic: "The whole process of epigenetics is vas...Nic: "<i>The whole process of epigenetics is vastly more complex than flip flopping genes."</i><br /><br />Everything is complex, but epigenetics is nothing more that specific genes being expressed in different ways depending on the environment they find themselves. And each one of these expressions can be acted on by selection. William Spearshakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09354659259971103985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-42827682187881045502016-11-19T09:59:53.162-08:002016-11-19T09:59:53.162-08:00Thank you for admitting that yours is nothing more...Thank you for admitting that yours is nothing more than contingent serendipity.Joe Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08305194278121208230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-36257370376387887372016-11-19T09:59:12.992-08:002016-11-19T09:59:12.992-08:00LoL! William the projectionist strikes again.LoL! William the projectionist strikes again.Joe Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08305194278121208230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-80668408967963017502016-11-19T09:39:53.598-08:002016-11-19T09:39:53.598-08:00William,
"If the expression of a gene flips ...William,<br /><br />"If the expression of a gene flips back and forth fairly routinely over several generations,..."<br /><br />The whole process of epigenetics is vastly more complex than flip flopping genes.Nichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08693133888203943510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-21132345305546940772016-11-19T08:10:22.202-08:002016-11-19T08:10:22.202-08:00Nothing says entertainment like the narcissistic i...Nothing says entertainment like the narcissistic inability to admit an error. William Spearshakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09354659259971103985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-74078819280337722482016-11-19T04:55:33.182-08:002016-11-19T04:55:33.182-08:00LoL! To the moron who thinks the ToE exists becaus...LoL! To the moron who thinks the ToE exists because of the number of google hits.<br /><br />You should just shut up Ghostrider. That is worse tan anything I have ever said. And it is very telling that you are too stupid to understand my explanation. And seeing that you don't know the original context of what was being said you have nothing to say about it.<br /><br />However we all know that you will continue to harp on it to try to distract from then fact that you are a liar and a loserJoe Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08305194278121208230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-21421308894439119302016-11-18T20:29:10.381-08:002016-11-18T20:29:10.381-08:00Hard to know which is funnier - when Joke makes an...Hard to know which is funnier - when Joke makes an incredibly stupid claim like "wavelength = frequency" or his following tap dancing as he tries to get his foot out of his mouth. Both are hilarious! :DGhostriderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04686873801972423841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-28364010300058795672016-11-18T14:52:50.365-08:002016-11-18T14:52:50.365-08:00Nic: "How would a system such as epigenetics ...Nic: "<i>How would a system such as epigenetics arise via random mutation and natural selection. "</i><br /><br />Hi Nic. If the expression of a gene flips back and forth fairly routinely over several generations, and one expression was deleterious, it is likely that the gene responsible for both expressions would be eliminated. We wouldn't see it. If one were advantageous and the other neutral or mildly deleterious, the gene might survive and proliferate. And if both expressions were advantageous, it would very likely be very successful in spreading throughout the population. <br /><br />"<i>What would be selected and why would it be selected in relation to unknown future environmental pressures?"</i><br /><br />Selection doesn't act on unknown future environmental pressures. It can only act on the present. But if some environment in the future causes methylation (or other chemical reactions that affect gene expression) selection can then act. William Spearshakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09354659259971103985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-67166761325506856772016-11-18T14:18:03.669-08:002016-11-18T14:18:03.669-08:00Joe,
"Natural selection does NOT select for....Joe,<br /><br />"Natural selection does NOT select for. Natural selection eliminates the less fit,..."<br /><br />Exactly, and that is my point. Random mutations and natural selection cannot possibly explain a system such as epigenetics.Nichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08693133888203943510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-73673488578310389182016-11-18T11:07:35.544-08:002016-11-18T11:07:35.544-08:00That is the problem, Nic. Natural selection does N...That is the problem, Nic. Natural selection does NOT select for. Natural selection eliminates the less fit, which in many cases is contingent upon the environment (as opposed to lethal mutations regardless of the environment).Joe Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08305194278121208230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-56032679661854218132016-11-18T11:05:15.752-08:002016-11-18T11:05:15.752-08:00"No man steps in the same river twice, for it..."No man steps in the same river twice, for it is not the same river and he's not the same man." HeraclitusJoe Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08305194278121208230noreply@blogger.com