tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post6303699016954473236..comments2024-01-23T02:32:28.567-08:00Comments on Darwin's God: Here’s a New Paper on a Long Non Coding RNAUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-16485686585307019652013-07-13T05:47:02.894-07:002013-07-13T05:47:02.894-07:00bpragmatic July 12, 2013 at 8:43 PM
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How m...<i><b>bpragmatic</b> July 12, 2013 at 8:43 PM<br /><br />[...]<br /><br />How much time do you think there is?</i><br /><br />I have no idea.<br /><br />The astronomers say our solar system will last for billions of years but there are any number of man-made and natural disasters that could put an end to our pretensions in short order.<br /><br />All we can do is keep on keeping on.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11311738457332907931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-63802423737060857582013-07-12T20:43:09.080-07:002013-07-12T20:43:09.080-07:00Spedding said:
"Good, that's what we sho...Spedding said:<br /><br />"Good, that's what we should all do. Wait patiently for more evidence before jumping to conclusions one way or the other."<br /><br /><br />How much time do you think there is?bpragmatichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13462678825475085862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-37478097744499303872013-07-12T05:34:45.117-07:002013-07-12T05:34:45.117-07:00bpragmatic July 10, 2013 at 8:25 PM
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No on...<i><b>bpragmatic</b> July 10, 2013 at 8:25 PM<br /><br />[...]<br /><br />No one can demostrate that NDE processes can create a single protein, let alone, even a relatively "simple" complex of proteins such as a bacterial flagellum. </i><br /><br />No, it can't be done - <i>yet</i><br /><br />Can we say with certainty that it will <i>never</i> be done? Again, no.<br /><br />[...]<br /><br /><i>I, for one, am waiting for REAL EVIDENCE, for and NDE position. "I hope you will join me, and the world can be as one."</i><br /><br />Good, that's what we should all do. Wait patiently for more evidence before jumping to <i>conclusions</i> one way or the other.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11311738457332907931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-33357206281344721412013-07-11T08:46:35.509-07:002013-07-11T08:46:35.509-07:00Elijah.
Wheres that exact quote(So when you told u...<b>Elijah.<br />Wheres that exact quote(So when you told us you had no opinion on the validity of evolution) </b><br /><br />DrHunter,<br />It would be an abuse of science to say the evolution of such systems is a fact, or likely. <b>I don’t care if evolution is true or not,</b>but from a strictly scientific perspective (which is not how the theory is motivated or evaluated), the idea is, to be frank, just silly.<br /><br />So he has an opinion on the validity,he just doesn't care if he is right or wrong.velikovskyshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10957523527184649923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-91189642982066740972013-07-10T21:38:20.539-07:002013-07-10T21:38:20.539-07:00"So when you told us you had no opinion on th..."So when you told us you had no opinion on the validity of evolution you were lying."<br /><br />Wheres that exact quote or you are the one thats bare faced lying.<br /><br />Elijah2012https://www.blogger.com/profile/02729894330690030276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-88655295999576739392013-07-10T20:25:31.484-07:002013-07-10T20:25:31.484-07:00Twt the magic philosopher said:
"The us and ...Twt the magic philosopher said:<br /><br />"The us and we are bible thumping creationists, right?<br /><br />And you bible thumping creationists are not dogmatic about origins, right? Pardon me while I LMAO."<br /><br />What if they were dogmatic? So what?<br /><br />What if there were not "bible thumping creationists" around that allows you to create this, staw man, false dichotemy that you love to promote in order to make it appear that "science" supports the NDE conjectures with "real evidence"?<br /><br />Anybody looking in, LOOK AT THIS OBSERVATION. This is all there is to that argument. Nothing more. <br /><br />No one can demostrate that NDE processes can create a single protein, let alone, even a relatively "simple" complex of proteins such as a bacterial flagellum. <br /><br />But, why let details stand in the way of a beloved philosophical position of a staunch, anti-realist intent on promoting an opinion.<br /><br />I, for one, am waiting for REAL EVIDENCE, for and NDE position. "I hope you will join me, and the world can be as one."<br /><br />(taken from another ignorant philosopher, who made it big in the electro-magnifier socio-promulating machine. That says, "if it can be put out to millions, it becomes truth".<br /> bpragmatichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13462678825475085862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-48220547440044346572013-07-10T09:52:53.838-07:002013-07-10T09:52:53.838-07:00Peter Wadeck
The timing of this creation is inter...<i>Peter Wadeck<br /><br />The timing of this creation is interesting. It was after the first life, and well before the human (in God's image) soul. Since it goes so far back there is almost no time to evolve. Evolution's deep time argument is meaningless. That really shows how impossible it would be for Xist to evolve.</i><br /><br />How so? Life on the planet dates back well over 3 billion years before the evolution of the mammals. Multicellular life dates back to roughly 500 million years before mammals. Why is that "almost no time" to evolve?Ghostriderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04686873801972423841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-7782065075371210582013-07-10T09:43:32.150-07:002013-07-10T09:43:32.150-07:00Thanks. Someone should make a catalog of divine cr...Thanks. Someone should make a catalog of divine creation in history. It would be an interesting read. Perhaps it could be a collaboration between a theologian and a biologist, sort of the when and why. <br /><br />The timing of this creation is interesting. It was after the first life, and well before the human (in God's image) soul. Since it goes so far back there is almost no time to evolve. Evolution's deep time argument is meaningless. That really shows how impossible it would be for Xist to evolve. It is a good context within which to expose the contradiction of 'rapid evolution.'Peter Wadeckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00396555091658593382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-14965799166683298662013-07-10T06:39:05.608-07:002013-07-10T06:39:05.608-07:00Great post, CH. You have quite successfully descr...Great post, CH. You have quite successfully described the non-falsifiable nature of evolutionary claims. Not holding my breath for any intelligent counter-arguments. <br /><br />It's basically at the point now where Evo's are throwing up their hands saying "<i>Okay, we don't care how crazy it sounds anymore with all the contradictory data, evolution still dunnit somehow... rapid.. de novo... yea, that's the ticket... no more questions!</i>"<br /><br />I would love to see you do an article on Orphan Genes, another case of ridiculous de novo storytelling.lifepsyophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16335224141967694317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-48916056104452526512013-07-09T22:45:21.318-07:002013-07-09T22:45:21.318-07:00You know Dr. Hunter,
The NLT James,1:18 He chose t...You know Dr. Hunter,<br />The NLT James,1:18 He chose to give birth to us by giving us his true word. And we, out of all creation, became his prized possession.<br /><br />When you reveal the intricacies of the DNA and how it works, I can't help but praise our Lord. Each of us has been given such wonderful systems that allow us to fulfill His will for our lives. We have much to be thankful for. <br />Thank you for continuing this blog. <br />Marcushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05905104887549850614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-26081844907494030132013-07-09T20:01:37.358-07:002013-07-09T20:01:37.358-07:00cornelius said:
"And then they blame us for ...cornelius said:<br /><br />"And then they blame us for it, even though we're not dogmatic about origins."<br /><br />The us and we are bible thumping creationists, right?<br /><br />And you bible thumping creationists are not dogmatic about origins, right? Pardon me while I LMAO. The whole truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07219999357041824471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-31900355898312292232013-07-09T19:12:54.336-07:002013-07-09T19:12:54.336-07:00Well it would have to be early in mammalian evolut...Well it would have to be early in mammalian evolution, taking you back a ~hundred million years or so.Cornelius Hunterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12283098537456505707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-1768997447773187692013-07-09T18:54:50.154-07:002013-07-09T18:54:50.154-07:00I would like to know when Xist emerged de novo?I would like to know when Xist emerged de novo?Peter Wadeckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00396555091658593382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-30891468805337289802013-07-09T18:42:23.903-07:002013-07-09T18:42:23.903-07:00Cornelius Hunter
So evolution is a fact huh?
Th...<i>Cornelius Hunter<br /><br />So evolution is a fact huh? </i><br /><br />That evolution over deep time has occurred is a scientific fact, yes.<br /><br /><i>And how do evolutionists know that to be true? </i><br /><br />From the 150+ years of consilient, cross-correlating and corroborating data from hundreds of different scientific disciplines.<br /><br /><i>You see evolution isn't about science, it is a dogma</i><br /><br />So when you told us you had no opinion on the validity of evolution you were lying. Thanks again for confirming what I assure you everyone already knows.Ghostriderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04686873801972423841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-46501430631903313482013-07-09T18:20:30.726-07:002013-07-09T18:20:30.726-07:00Of course it assumes evolution, because evolution ...<i>Of course it assumes evolution, because evolution is a done deal, and has been for a long time. There is no question that life has evolved. Therefore scientists take it for granted and study how evolution has occurred.</i><br /><br />So evolution is a fact huh? And how do evolutionists know that to be true? Oh, because there are fossils revealing different species that came before (even though the species appear abruptly and then die off due to extinction). And there are all kinds of similarities and differences between the species (even though those patterns don't fit evolution's expectations). And we can observe change from both breeders and in the field (even though breeders have long since known their change is limited and the change we observe in the field comes from complex adaptation mechanisms that evolution cannot explain).<br /><br />You see evolution isn't about science, it is a dogma. And then they blame us for it, even though we're not dogmatic about origins. Funny how that works.Cornelius Hunterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12283098537456505707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-102628095881456352013-07-09T15:26:36.920-07:002013-07-09T15:26:36.920-07:00Cornelius citing a paper:
Nonetheless, it simply ...Cornelius citing a paper:<br /><br /><i>Nonetheless, it simply assumes evolution, regardless of how unlikely</i><br /><br />Of course it assumes evolution, because evolution is a done deal, and has been for a long time. There is no question that life has evolved. Therefore scientists take it for granted and study <i>how</i> evolution has occurred. <br /><br />Unless of course you're a teacher at a Bible college whose mission it is to brainwash young people into believing creationist bullshit.troyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05136662027396943138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-84540425975967309042013-07-09T14:45:10.855-07:002013-07-09T14:45:10.855-07:00bw
Thorton (man that is hard to type without thin...<i>bw<br /><br />Thorton (man that is hard to type without thinking of chocolates)</i><br /><br />It's actually T. Horton, like the Canadian doughnut chain. Not that it will help with the cravings much :)<br /><br /><i>as far as a Nobel prize goes I wouldn't get your hopes up - I doubt they would give one for simply disproving a theory, especially one so widely accepted; humans are not well know for swallowing bitter pills with grace you know. </i><br /><br />Au contraire. Anyone who manages to disprove ToE would go down in history as one of the most famous scientists of all times.<br /><br /><i>Much more likely for producing an alternative theory I should think, but that seems to be an impossible task.</i><br /><br />It's certainly proven impossible for the Creationists and IDiots so far.Ghostriderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04686873801972423841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-27141305471119703222013-07-09T14:25:51.714-07:002013-07-09T14:25:51.714-07:00Thorton (man that is hard to type without thinking...Thorton (man that is hard to type without thinking of chocolates) as far as a Nobel prize goes I wouldn't get your hopes up - I doubt they would give one for simply disproving a theory, especially one so widely accepted; humans are not well know for swallowing bitter pills with grace you know. Much more likely for producing an alternative theory I should think, but that seems to be an impossible task.bwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11160739852699855117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-11544900081437996812013-07-09T14:04:18.358-07:002013-07-09T14:04:18.358-07:00Yes, that's a good example. The just-add-water...Yes, that's a good example. The just-add-water narrative always becomes more complicated. For instance, don't forget that the histones and promoters needed to be modified as well:<br /><br /><i>The evolution of complete and stable inactivation was accompanied by substitution of the noncoding RNA Rsx by Xist and the emergence of Xist -dependent modifications in the histones on the inactive X chromosome, along with DNA methylation in promoters</i><br /><br />Also, think of the incredible serendipity that a protein-coding sequence could turn right around and serve as an RNA sequence:<br /><br /><i>The Lnx3 gene, whose protein product contains the ubiquitin-ligase domain PDZ, underlies the formation of Xist (Fig. 4). It has been shown by comparing these genes that the promoter region and at least three exons of the Xist gene originate from the sequences of the Lnx3 gene.</i><br /><br />Kind of like saying an encoded message could also be used as an unencoded message.<br /><br />More serendipity as parts as disparate as (i) protein-coding exons, (ii) endogenous retroviruses, and (iii) mobile elements of various classes, just happen to work together to construct the incredible Xist gene.<br /><br /><i>The largest first exon of the Xist gene presumably descended from endogenous retroviruses, whose fragments (after having been inserted into the locus) were amplified, producing simple tandem repeats of several types, which have been identified within it. The remaining exons of the Xist gene are syntenic to mobile elements of various classes.</i><br /><br />All done with speed and efficiency:<br /><br /><i>However, the Xist gene is not conserved and evolves very rapidly</i>Cornelius Hunterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12283098537456505707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-77274186701774829962013-07-09T14:02:21.868-07:002013-07-09T14:02:21.868-07:00Cornelius Goebbels
The findings are not only asto...<i>Cornelius Goebbels<br /><br />The findings are not only astonishing, they demolish evolutionary theory.</i><br /><br />LOL! There goes poor old evolutionary theory being "demolished" again. <br /><br />What's that make, about 15,000 times in the last dozen decades Creationists have proclaimed ToE to be finished? Heck CH, you personally have falsified ToE several hundred times all by yourself, right? And still no Nobel Prize....<br /><br />Sorry Herr Cornelius, maybe next week. ;)<br /><br />Ghostriderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04686873801972423841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-40644556080246726692013-07-09T13:36:08.024-07:002013-07-09T13:36:08.024-07:00Ah Cornelius, you forget that nothing in biology m...Ah Cornelius, you forget that nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.<br /><br />On a more serious note thought, a quick delving though papers courtesy of google and google scholar shows that there are a number of questions posed and issues raised around Xist and inavtivations.<br /><br />Take:<br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3695352/<br />"There is at present no satisfactory explanation for the origin of the X chromosome inactivation. The inactivation mechanism could have emerged de novo on the X chromosome or could have been borrowed from the existing silencing process."<br /><br />These papers contain a lot of speculation and discovered discrepancies. I wish they would focus more on the function and less on trying to postulate how it evolved.bwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11160739852699855117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-39941805831496775722013-07-09T13:19:06.162-07:002013-07-09T13:19:06.162-07:00Well I do appreciate the more scientific tone of t...Well I do appreciate the more scientific tone of the Elisaphenko paper. Nonetheless, it simply assumes evolution, regardless of how unlikely:<br /><br /><i>Comparative analysis across different species shows that eutherian Xist evolved in a species-specific manner. As reported previously the unique sequence of the Xist gene is not conserved and evolves very rapidly. The exon-intron structure of Xist is also not strongly conserved. The interspecific differences in the unique sequence, length and structure of exons suggest that the length of the RNA (and, consequently, the sequences, like mobile elements and tandem repeats, contributing to the RNA size in different species) is either non-essential for function (neutral sequences) or these sequences became selectively adapted in a specific manner to the conditions of functioning in the genome and the X chromosome of particular species. Certain core sequences common for all species are essential for the regulation of gene activity and its function. …<br /><br />Thus, we have proposed a mechanism whereby the Xist gene may have originated. We suggest that the Xist gene lost the function of the protein-coding gene Lnx3 and no longer contained any extended ORFs. However, due to transposon insertions and their partial subsequent amplification, new functional domains formed (for example, repeat A in exon 1 [17]). These domains then became necessary for the transcriptional silencing of X chromosome genes. We suggest that this example of how a protein-coding gene loses its protein-coding function by mutation and then gains a new function due to transposon integration is not an exceptional case, but is a more wide-spread phenomenon applying to other non-coding RNA genes and pseudogenes with new functions.</i><br /><br />Cornelius Hunterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12283098537456505707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-36743257500785352032013-07-09T13:10:32.577-07:002013-07-09T13:10:32.577-07:00Thanks for the link, just goes to show does't ...Thanks for the link, just goes to show does't it. Makes it harder to fully commit to studies like this when despite "we show here that Xist evolved" which sounds pretty conclusive... later turns into "emerged de novo". Really does not help the cause.bwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11160739852699855117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-6529649467835187452013-07-09T12:55:56.324-07:002013-07-09T12:55:56.324-07:00Nonetheless, as they report: "We show here th...Nonetheless, as they report: "We show here that Xist evolved, at least partly, from a protein-coding gene ...". This non scientific certainty comes right out of the metaphysics.<br /><br />This later paper diplomatically corrects them ("Previously it was proposed ..."). That paper says Xist "emerged de novo in early eutherians (from a combination of exons and mobile elements)". One way or another, they need an unlikely sequence to arise rapidly at the right place.<br /><br />http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0002521<br /><br />I added that paper to the post.Cornelius Hunterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12283098537456505707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-67097276981365061402013-07-09T12:11:06.099-07:002013-07-09T12:11:06.099-07:00I never cease to be impressed by the wonders at wo...I never cease to be impressed by the wonders at work within living things.<br /><br />The abstract in this paper suggests Xist evolved (at least partly) from another protein coding gene.<br />http://www.sciencemag.org/content/312/5780/1653<br /><br />I would be interested in how much "partly" means and also interesting that they note that the mechanisms of dosage compensation have evolved independently at least twice - something that seems to happen a lot.<br /><br />bbwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11160739852699855117noreply@blogger.com