tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post2369254648529050459..comments2024-01-23T02:32:28.567-08:00Comments on Darwin's God: Evolutionists Unconscious of Their ConsciousnessUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger132125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-43243878720825899312012-07-20T09:38:14.169-07:002012-07-20T09:38:14.169-07:00I have eaten
the plums
that were in
the icebox
an...I have eaten<br />the plums<br />that were in<br />the icebox<br /><br />and which<br />you were probably <br />saving<br />for breakfast<br /><br />forgive me<br />they were delicious<br />so sweet <br />and so cold<br /><br />WCWilliamsvelikovskyshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10957523527184649923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-82884887800754650662012-07-20T06:09:36.103-07:002012-07-20T06:09:36.103-07:00Ritchie said
"But that is exactly what peop...Ritchie said <br /><br />"But that is exactly what people are working on as we speak. Abiogenesis is a productive and rapidly advancing area of study. We don't have the answers yet, but people are piecing together the puzzle."<br /><br />Well then we do not have a "perfect good chemistry" scientist are only guessing. <br />And they are guessing only because they want to explain the facts by natural laws. Because they do not apply methodological naturalism, that not allow you to make inferences of the past, but because they are mataphisical naturalist that mandate everything should have a naturalistic explanation.Blashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13205610477389739651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-79985159607996710252012-07-19T07:34:57.630-07:002012-07-19T07:34:57.630-07:00Fire crackle
ripples calm mind,
fragrance of a re...Fire crackle <br />ripples calm mind,<br />fragrance of a red pine.Eugenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15513772766225981430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-35274443935401669352012-07-19T06:40:14.772-07:002012-07-19T06:40:14.772-07:00You forgot the Aspens turning gold by the lake, an...You forgot the Aspens turning gold by the lake, and the crackling fire. The ideal research location.velikovskyshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10957523527184649923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-18773056299057143202012-07-18T19:45:03.766-07:002012-07-18T19:45:03.766-07:00It's beyond my scope probably. It's someth...It's beyond my scope probably. It's something you'd like to think about while camping near lake and enjoying your evening drink under the starry sky. Hopefully you didn't forget mosquito repellant.Eugenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15513772766225981430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-4907444037084644052012-07-18T15:51:30.633-07:002012-07-18T15:51:30.633-07:00@Ritchie:
HOW did this Intelligent Designer "...@Ritchie:<br /><br /><i>HOW did this Intelligent Designer "impose unnatural order upon matter"?</i><br /><br />I don't know. But, on the assumption that the universe was created by an intelligent agent, it does not seem unreasonable to suppose that imposing "unnatural" order on material systems would be a superable difficulty for the creator.<br /><br /><i>Where did the molecules He/She/It used to create life/the universe come from?</i><br /><br />Perhaps my use of the verb "poof" was unfortunate. I wasn't thinking of creation <i>ex nihilo</i>. I meant "poof" in the sense of instantaneous or near-instantaneous arrangement of preexisting matter into configurations into which it would not, and could not, have ever have achieved apart from intelligent intervention.<br /><br /><i>Does ID really provide any explanation more substancial than "It was magic"?</i><br /><br />Inference to an intelligent designer is not an inference to magic. On the other hand, those who attribute intelligence to METC (matter + energy + time + chance, independent of intelligent intervention) seem to be the magic wand-wavers to me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-47587094878378882322012-07-18T15:31:57.587-07:002012-07-18T15:31:57.587-07:00Hi Alan,
But is this any more than qualitative de...Hi Alan,<br /><br /><i>But is this any more than qualitative description?</i><br /><br />Perhaps not. But the description is informative. Observing what intelligence enables an intelligent agent to do, and contrasting that with what non-intelligent entities have never been observed to do, tells the (intelligent!) observer something about the nature of intelligence. As I wrote, it is a reasonable starting point, not a formal definition.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-37435026992124836892012-07-18T14:59:52.584-07:002012-07-18T14:59:52.584-07:00@ Blas
My point is a simple one. There is no gene...@ Blas<br /><br />My point is a simple one. There is no general property of sentient living organisms that can be described as intelligence that has any useful application in science, in my view.<br /><br />If I am wrong, it should be easy to describe how intelligence is measured quantifiably. I will be impressed if there is a method that is universal to humans, dolphins, crows and Platyhelminthes.<br /><br />@ eugen<br /><br />Dictionary.com is a useful aid for English comprehension but it doesn't tell us what constitutes intelligence in a sentient organismAlan Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16470368958109056177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-50609596389508363822012-07-18T14:55:32.215-07:002012-07-18T14:55:32.215-07:00Does intelligence have a cause? If it is immateria...Does intelligence have a cause? If it is immaterial what accounts for varying levels of intelligence?velikovskyshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10957523527184649923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-75389686605639953992012-07-18T10:26:52.167-07:002012-07-18T10:26:52.167-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.velikovskyshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10957523527184649923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-56364707147724471032012-07-18T10:11:44.768-07:002012-07-18T10:11:44.768-07:00It would be unproductive for ID proponents to get...It would be unproductive for ID proponents to get bogged down in what exactly constitutes design or intelligence. What is the quote? There is no need for ID to provide a pathetic level of detailvelikovskyshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10957523527184649923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-22705017180757486852012-07-18T10:03:36.277-07:002012-07-18T10:03:36.277-07:00Alan Fox
I don't get you, either? You don'...Alan Fox<br /><br />I don't get you, either? You don't understand what intelligence is?<br /><br />Here is definition:<br /><br />intelligence<br /><br />noun <br />1. <br />capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc. <br />2. <br />manifestation of a high mental capacity3. <br />the faculty of understanding. <br />4. <br />knowledge of an event, circumstance, etc., received or imparted; news; information. <br />5. <br />the gathering or distribution of information, especially secret information. <br /><br /><br />Would you agree with that definition?Eugenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15513772766225981430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-91994255504006633272012-07-18T09:11:22.787-07:002012-07-18T09:11:22.787-07:00Alan Fox said
"Imagination is a wonderful th...Alan Fox said<br /><br />"Imagination is a wonderful thing and useful. I can imagine that the ability to imagine what might be hiding round the next corner could have a real survival advantage. But our ability to imagine stuff does not make it real."<br /><br />And your point is ...Blashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13205610477389739651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-960947173906802472012-07-18T09:06:25.333-07:002012-07-18T09:06:25.333-07:00And no matter humans abilities cannot be phisicall...<i>And no matter humans abilities cannot be phisically measurable you can extrapolate them to other beings. You cannot quantify the ability to make music, paint, help your neighborhood but you can immagine that there are other beeings with that abilities in greater proportions than us.</i><br /><br />Imagination is a wonderful thing and useful. I can imagine that the ability to imagine what might be hiding round the next corner could have a real survival advantage. But our ability to imagine stuff does not make it real.Alan Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16470368958109056177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-33989735094906421142012-07-18T08:57:16.646-07:002012-07-18T08:57:16.646-07:00Are you asking, Is it intelligent to extrapolate a...<i>Are you asking, Is it intelligent to extrapolate an undefined quality to an unknown entity? Even more an infinite amount of this quality?</i>No, I think such a mind experiment is pretty unproductive. I see the word "intelligence" bandied about quite a bit and I just wonder if those using the word all have their own or indeed any specific quality (or indeed quantity but I think this is way more problematic) in mind. There doesn't seem to be any consensus.Alan Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16470368958109056177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-80622999816055542632012-07-18T08:10:06.876-07:002012-07-18T08:10:06.876-07:00I agree, memory alone isn't the whole story, j...I agree, memory alone isn't the whole story, just like owning a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter, it just makes it easier to drive nails. <br /><br />Intelligence has to do with the manner in which you use the tools and the ability to connect the seemingly unconnected. Newton and orbital mechanics.velikovskyshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10957523527184649923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-37624164478801324082012-07-18T07:34:23.318-07:002012-07-18T07:34:23.318-07:00velikovskys, yes off course, but having memory not...velikovskys, yes off course, but having memory not necessary leds to having intelligence.Blashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13205610477389739651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-88676984434947798332012-07-18T07:01:34.781-07:002012-07-18T07:01:34.781-07:00Blas,
Memory is a tool to problem solving, do you...Blas,<br /><br />Memory is a tool to problem solving, do you know the story of Archimedes?velikovskyshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10957523527184649923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-23545680856805575412012-07-18T06:54:58.371-07:002012-07-18T06:54:58.371-07:00Alan,
Are you asking, Is it intelligent to extrap...Alan,<br /><br />Are you asking, Is it intelligent to extrapolate an undefined quality to an unknown entity? Even more an infinite amount of this quality ?velikovskyshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10957523527184649923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-41750670172600993672012-07-18T06:52:52.069-07:002012-07-18T06:52:52.069-07:00I see the ability of solve puzzles more related wi...I see the ability of solve puzzles more related with memory. Ability to remember wich is the correct answer after found it by try-error process. May be you can call this intelligence, but it is different to the abilitie to understand as we humans know.Blashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13205610477389739651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-796972495120822972012-07-18T06:43:39.680-07:002012-07-18T06:43:39.680-07:00Blas,
I disagree,the ability to solve puzzles is ...Blas,<br /><br />I disagree,the ability to solve puzzles is very much one measure of the quality of intelligence.velikovskyshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10957523527184649923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-71396190364980749992012-07-18T05:08:41.958-07:002012-07-18T05:08:41.958-07:00Alan FoxJuly 17, 2012 11:35 PM
"If we can...Alan FoxJuly 17, 2012 11:35 PM<br /><br />"If we can't even describe what the attribute of intelligence is applied to sentient organisms with which we are familiar, how can we extrapolate to a general property that we can also assign to unknown, undetectable entities such as "intelligent designers"?"<br /><br /><br />Well, this should be answered by an ID suppporter. But as far I understand "intelligent designers" refers not only to his ability to understand what he is doing, but also that he is doing it on purpose. <br />And no matter humans abilities cannot be phisically measurable you can extrapolate them to other beings. You cannot quantify the ability to make music, paint, help your neighborhood but you can immagine that there are other beeings with that abilities in greater proportions than us.Blashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13205610477389739651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-47446548337308702262012-07-18T04:58:30.383-07:002012-07-18T04:58:30.383-07:00Alan Fox said
"OK, so how does that help?&qu...Alan Fox said<br /><br />"OK, so how does that help?"<br /><br />It depends of what you are searching for.<br /><br />"Ability to understand is a property of sentient living organisms?"<br /><br />Yes<br /><br /><br />"Separates sentient beings from inert objects?"<br /><br />As far as I know there is no way to see if a rock can understand.<br /><br />"I can't help think that we can say no more that the ability to understand is zero in inert objects and sentient organisms show a greater or lesser ability to understand."<br /><br />I think that we can say more about the human intelligence.<br /><br />"Is it meaningful to compare the intelligence of a crow (puzzle solving crows abound on U tube) with a dolphin."<br /><br />I do not think ability to solving puzzles means intelligence.Blashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13205610477389739651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-53783319565496174172012-07-18T02:55:47.405-07:002012-07-18T02:55:47.405-07:00A number of these arguments are sounding like Darw...A number of these arguments are sounding like Darwin of the gaps. Just saying....Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17612470847104273006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-40217448431227215172012-07-18T01:52:30.558-07:002012-07-18T01:52:30.558-07:00BA: Please cite the exact demarcation criteria tha...BA: Please cite the exact demarcation criteria that would falsify evolution as say in this one for General Relativity:<br /><br />First, evolution isn't gravity. It's unclear why you'd think they are the same. <br /><br />Second, a link was to an entire article on the subject was provided. Did you actually read it?<br /><br />You can also find a reading guide for Popper's <i>The Logic of Scientific Discovery</i> <a href="http://www.the-rathouse.com/Popper-papers/LSD-READER.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.<br /><br />Again, the underlying explanation behind the predictions of evolutionary theory is that the knowledge of how to build biological adaptations was created using conjecture and refutation. Specifically, conjecture, in the form of genetic variation, and refutation, in the form of natural selection. <br /><br />As such, observations that the majority of genetic variation are beneficial, in that they do not represent conjecture, would falsify evolutionary theory. Another observation would be the most complex organisms appearing at the same time as the least complex. Or that organisms appeared in an order of most complex to least complex. Either could not be explained by the error correcting process of conjecture and refutation. <br /><br />Again see the provided link in my earlier commend regarding historical sciences for more details.Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11193595678064010528noreply@blogger.com