tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post1676829228859273851..comments2024-01-23T02:32:28.567-08:00Comments on Darwin's God: Debate Redux: The Myth of Natural SelectionUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger128125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-19372664295513000692016-03-24T21:21:09.879-07:002016-03-24T21:21:09.879-07:00Well ghost, the excess reproduction creates the va...Well ghost, the excess reproduction creates the variation, so there will always be fit offspring. the ones that are not fit become part of the food chain. that is why we have a stable biosphere. there is inter-species cooperation. the competition evolutionists speak of is only intra-species. so all this darwinian talk of survival of the fittest is meaningless. of course the fit survive. there is never any question about it. that the way the system works. excess reproduction provides the variation and the nutrition at the same time.<br /><br />Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246115342112568778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-58720805656808272802016-03-24T11:01:59.073-07:002016-03-24T11:01:59.073-07:00Bill Cole
Lawrence Krauss tried to show that ID w...<i>Bill Cole<br /><br />Lawrence Krauss tried to show that ID was not science but he did a horrible job. Meyer countered by presenting a lot of science forcing Krauss to deal with the very science that he said ID doesn't do!</i><br /><br />Meyer didn't present a single thing supporting ID. All he did was the usual Creationist two-step of cherry picking a few scientific results and claiming if evolution can't explain them then ID wins by default.<br /><br />There's a reason Meyer is viewed as such a disingenuous tool by the scientific community.Ghostriderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04686873801972423841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-91569414582422992122016-03-24T10:50:14.424-07:002016-03-24T10:50:14.424-07:00William
Several scientist I have talked to are ske...William<br />Several scientist I have talked to are skeptical of current evolutionary mechanisms. James Shapiro Eugene Koonen are heading a list of hundreds. I think it is the minority opinion but growing as the sequential space problem of the genome is getting better understood. I think that what we observe in the cell potentially adds to the design argument. i.e. very highly tuned processes like cell division DNA repaired Alternative splicing but at the end of the day it is an inference discussion. I think it can stand up scientifically if it is limited to inference as Larry Moran acknowledged after the debate in Toronto when he said he thought Steven Meyer was doing real science see post below.<br /><br />Laurence A. MoranMonday, March 21, 2016 10:09:00 AM<br />Bill says,<br /><br />"But the point is moot. ID is not a scientific endeavor. Never has been. It's a political movement with a social agenda to inject religion into American public schools. Simple as that."<br /><br />The debate took place in Canada where we allow the teaching of religion in public schools. None of us give a damn about the American Constitution. We're interesting in knowing whether the science is valid or not. <br /><br />If the Intelligent Design proponents have legitimate complaints about evolution and if they have good scientific arguments in favor of design then those ideas should be taught in Canadian schools in spite of what some judge in Pennsylvania said ten years ago. <br /><br />Lawrence Krauss tried to show that ID was not science but he did a horrible job. Meyer countered by presenting a lot of science forcing Krauss to deal with the very science that he said ID doesn't do!<br /><br />Bill, you are being dangerously naive if you think you can simply dismiss the ID movement because it's not science (according to your definition). The general public doesn't care. All they see is serious attacks on evolution that look a lot like science. <br /><br />Yes, ID is a movement and so are the desires to do something about climate change or GMO's. There are lots of "movements" with social and political agenda. Many of them deal with science in one way of another. It's the role of scientists to evaluate the scientific arguments in spite of the agenda. We have to show that the goal of the movement is either compatible or incompatible with the scientific facts. Bill Colehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06642212549806694659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-50389912677664914292016-03-24T09:17:35.105-07:002016-03-24T09:17:35.105-07:00NIc, as an atheist, I don't think that there i...NIc, as an atheist, I don't think that there is a god. I think that each person who believes in God uses the bible (or church teachings) to develop their own image of who and what God is. As such, there are millions of different Gods. Based on the way you treat people on this blog, your personal God is a loving and forgiving God. That I don't doubt. But based on the way Mapou behaves, his God is rude and vindictive. I much prefer your God.William Spearshakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09354659259971103985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-4758501626464331702016-03-24T07:42:51.373-07:002016-03-24T07:42:51.373-07:00William,
"And, yes, she knows that I don'...William,<br /><br />"And, yes, she knows that I don't worship a mythical vindictive God."<br /><br />Neither do I. I worship a very real, loving and forgiving God. Please don't judge God by the actions and words of those who claim to follow him but continually display conduct which is totally to the contrary.Nichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08693133888203943510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-28970614913010551682016-03-24T06:25:08.282-07:002016-03-24T06:25:08.282-07:00Steve
Excess reproduction is built into the syste...<i>Steve<br /><br />Excess reproduction is built into the system. Thats how it works.<br /><br />That is a positive claim and logical evidence.</i><br /><br />Actually that's another good argument against ID. If animals are designed why are they build with so much individual variation instead of all coming out identical like human designed mass produced items do? Why are so many more built than are needed under the Design scenario?<br /><br />Thanks Steve for providing another good point against IDiocy.Ghostriderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04686873801972423841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-69540801228090884632016-03-24T02:37:14.390-07:002016-03-24T02:37:14.390-07:00Its called excess reproduction, ghost.
It is exce...Its called excess reproduction, ghost.<br /><br />It is excess reproction that drives variation which natural selection filters.<br /><br />Variation and selection are dead without excess reproduction. Therefore excess reproduciton cannot be defined by variation and selection.<br /><br />Excess reproduction is built into the system. Thats how it works.<br /><br />That is a positive claim and logical evidence.<br /><br />This whole schtick about how variation and selection are 'somehow' causes is one of the many evolutionary memes not based on any thing factual.<br /><br />Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246115342112568778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-38172523201333461822016-03-23T21:44:26.984-07:002016-03-23T21:44:26.984-07:00Mapping, yup. My mother knew exactly how smart I a...Mapping, yup. My mother knew exactly how smart I am. And, yes, she knows that I don't worship a mythical vindictive God. But maybe you should take your argument to In Effigy over at UD. William Spearshakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09354659259971103985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-51084798135791697832016-03-23T19:20:06.440-07:002016-03-23T19:20:06.440-07:00Mapou: "You're wrong. I'm very happy....Mapou: "<i>You're wrong. I'm very happy. I enjoy insulting dirt worshippers."</i><br /><br />But does your mother still enjoy you living in her basement? William Spearshakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09354659259971103985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-25038945088644103782016-03-23T17:03:10.790-07:002016-03-23T17:03:10.790-07:00Mapou: "There you go, lying again, as usual.&...Mapou: "<i>There you go, lying again, as usual."</i><br /><br />I am embarrassed to admit it, but you are absolutely correct. When I said that I felt sorry for you because you are a friendless, hate filled person, I lied. The truth is, I have no sympathy for you. You are solely responsible for your sad lonely existence. William Spearshakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09354659259971103985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-11387684927377153032016-03-23T16:58:00.068-07:002016-03-23T16:58:00.068-07:00Bill: "I think natural selection is very unli...Bill: "<i>I think natural selection is very unlikely to be the cause of large scale evolutionary change and I am sure you are aware it is being challenged."</i><br /><br />I certainly respect your opinion, but when you say that it is being challenged, by who? Certainly not by any respected biologists. Even Larry Moran, who thinks that NS plays a much smaller role than most other respected biologists do, still acknowledges the importance of NS. <br /><br />"<i> We started with e coli and ended with e coli."</i><br /><br />What did you expect to happen? I assure you, no scientist expected to see a new species. <br /><br />"<i>I have not yet concluded whether ID has value in a scientific discussion. I think it does but only discussed in the right context."</i><br /><br />If it has any validity, it should survive scrutiny under any scientific scrutiny. Or are you suggesting that it only has validity when discussed under a religious context? If that was your intent, I agree. William Spearshakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09354659259971103985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-6811805493000779292016-03-23T16:10:19.000-07:002016-03-23T16:10:19.000-07:00Hi William
I think natural selection is very unlik...Hi William<br />I think natural selection is very unlikely to be the cause of large scale evolutionary change and I am sure you are aware it is being challenged. While Lenski showed adaptive changes we started out with e coli that could not process citrate in a aerobic environment and through a mutation got an existing enzyme to process it. We started with e coli and ended with e coli.<br /><br />"What tests have been done to confirm the mechanisms of ID?"<br /><br />Again, ID does not have a testable mechanism. It is an inference based on design characteristics observed in nature. I have not yet concluded whether ID has value in a scientific discussion. I think it does but only discussed in the right context.Bill Colehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06642212549806694659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-50212252015208276242016-03-23T13:28:54.657-07:002016-03-23T13:28:54.657-07:00There you go, lying again, as usual. I don't d...There you go, lying again, as usual. I don't despise everyone who disagrees with me. I don't care if anybody disagrees with me. I just despise dirt worshipping jackasses. They are notoriously foul smelling and fiendishly stupid animals.<br /><br />ahahaha...AHAHAHAHA...Rebel Sciencehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11762287159937757216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-38728655320788066222016-03-23T10:59:35.159-07:002016-03-23T10:59:35.159-07:00Bill: "I agree with you here. Along with evol...Bill: "<i>I agree with you here. Along with evolution I do not believe ID has a testable mechanism for producing."</i><br /><br />Natural selection is certainly testable. It postulates that "random" mutations and other mechanisms for shaking up the deck (e.g., transposition, gene duplication, etc.) will add variation to a population and, depending on the environment, one or more of these new variants will have differential reproductive success and the new variant will increase in frequency in the population. Lenski's experiment demonstrates this quite well. As do many others.<br /><br />What tests have been done to confirm the mechanisms of ID?<br />William Spearshakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09354659259971103985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-44496118842125174892016-03-23T08:37:55.980-07:002016-03-23T08:37:55.980-07:00WS
But maybe we should ask you the same question. ...WS<br />But maybe we should ask you the same question. Can you give me the test that best confirms the mechanisms behind ID? Oh. I forgot. We aren't allowed to ask about the mechanisms use by the designer.<br /><br />I agree with you here. Along with evolution I do not believe ID has a testable mechanism for producing.<br />"I'm afraid that you will have to narrow the scope of your question. There have been so many tests that support every mechanism of evolution that we know about that we can't narrow it to a single one."<br /><br />This is the answer that is required when your evidence is supported with the inference standard. If the theory was based on a tested hypothesis this would be easy to answer.Bill Colehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06642212549806694659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-28697498527057612362016-03-23T06:05:18.464-07:002016-03-23T06:05:18.464-07:00Mapou, I honestly feel sorry for you. You are miss...Mapou, I honestly feel sorry for you. You are missing out on so much in life, and so many potential friends, by despising everyone who disagrees with you. William Spearshakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09354659259971103985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-52678982832857924912016-03-22T21:58:58.977-07:002016-03-22T21:58:58.977-07:00Kiss, kiss. Just look how they love each other. I ...Kiss, kiss. Just look how they love each other. I guess Jesus and Darwin are smiling in heaven, eh?<br /><br />LOLRebel Sciencehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11762287159937757216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-28565810646462927142016-03-22T21:40:26.206-07:002016-03-22T21:40:26.206-07:00Nic: "Make sure you do. And for great burgers...Nic: "<i>Make sure you do. And for great burgers check out Jasper Pizza and Lou Lou's."</i><br /><br />I certainly will. But I have toyed with Mapou enough for one day. I don't want to see him cry. it is time for bed. I am sure that we will disagree over things in the future. William Spearshakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09354659259971103985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-80128753528578243412016-03-22T21:37:29.096-07:002016-03-22T21:37:29.096-07:00Again, I am not preaching to you
Yes you are. No ...<i>Again, I am not preaching to you</i><br /><br />Yes you are. No wonder you get along so well with the dirt worshippers. They, too, love to preach their stupid dirt worshipping religion just as much as you love to preach your fundamentalist nonsense.<br /><br />Birds of a feather. LOLRebel Sciencehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11762287159937757216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-78748347978554114182016-03-22T21:35:53.028-07:002016-03-22T21:35:53.028-07:00Mapou: "Atheists, Darwinists and materialists...Mapou: "<i>Atheists, Darwinists and materialists are some of the most stupid creatures on earth. Fiendishly stupid."</i><br /><br />You must be right. It's not like any atheists have ever contributed significantly to science. Well, except for Darwin (a late comer to atheism), Niels Bohr, Francis Crick, Richard Feynman and Edmond Halley. And then there is Stephen Hawkin, Peter Higgs, Linus Pauling, Roger Penrose, Erwin Schrodinger, James Shockley, Craig Venter and James Watson. And then there is that Einstein guy. <br /><br />But I am sure that you are more knowledgable than any or all of them so I bow to your superior wisdom. After all, I am just a lowly dirt worshipper that you defecate on. William Spearshakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09354659259971103985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-3752431129710331502016-03-22T21:33:11.028-07:002016-03-22T21:33:11.028-07:00William,
"We have a married daughter in Edmo...William,<br /><br />"We have a married daughter in Edmonton so we might get to Jasper this summer."<br /><br />Make sure you do. And for great burgers check out Jasper Pizza and Lou Lou's.Nichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08693133888203943510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-27082861515964008522016-03-22T21:22:25.020-07:002016-03-22T21:22:25.020-07:00Doing very well thank you. We have a married daugh...Doing very well thank you. We have a married daughter in Edmonton so we might get to Jasper this summer. William Spearshakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09354659259971103985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-48894850817019702002016-03-22T21:20:30.224-07:002016-03-22T21:20:30.224-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.William Spearshakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09354659259971103985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-60401106047855124062016-03-22T21:16:41.908-07:002016-03-22T21:16:41.908-07:00William,
"By the way, I hope you and family ...William,<br /><br />"By the way, I hope you and family are well."<br /><br />Yes, we are, and thank you for asking. We took our two granddaughters skiing in Jasper last week and had a great time. Hope your family is doing well also.Nichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08693133888203943510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3855268335402896473.post-72575681661727147632016-03-22T21:13:59.271-07:002016-03-22T21:13:59.271-07:00Louis,
"Nobody can preach to me unless you c...Louis,<br /><br />"Nobody can preach to me unless you can make the blind see or walk on water." <br /><br />Well, I for one see it as painfully obvious that you are not listening to that individual which did accomplish those things.<br /><br />"Faith in Yahweh and in his sacrifice for our sins."<br /><br />I think it is time you realized your attitude towards those who disagree with you is itself sinful. Christ died for ghostrider and William as much as he died for you and me. Therefore it is incumbent upon you to treat them and anyone else who disagrees with you in a respectful manner just as the Bible commands. Being respectful does not mean you have to agree. <br /><br />I would really like to know what you think you will accomplish with your hateful attitude?<br /><br />"Again, stop preaching to me. Otherwise, I will lump you with the dirt worshippers."<br /><br />Again, I am not preaching to you, I am only pointing out the obvious.<br /><br />As for lumping me in with the 'dirt worshippers' as you like to call them, that is your prerogative. It will affect me not one iota. Nichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08693133888203943510noreply@blogger.com